Solving Geodesic Eq.: Mysterious Conservation Eq. (Sec. 5.4 Carroll)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conservation equations related to geodesics in the context of general relativity, specifically as presented in section 5.4 of Carroll's book. Participants explore the implications of the geodesic equation and the relationship between affine parameters and proper time for both timelike and null geodesics.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how the constant of motion $$\epsilon=-g_{\mu\nu}\frac{dx^\mu}{d\lambda}\frac{dx^\nu}{d\lambda}$$ arises from the geodesic equation, noting its similarity to the expression for proper time.
  • Another participant clarifies that the treatment of geodesics must differentiate between timelike and null geodesics, stating that for timelike geodesics, $$\epsilon = 1$$, while for null geodesics, $$\epsilon = 0$$.
  • A participant asserts that the validity of the conservation equation is contingent on the use of affine parameters, suggesting that geodesics can always be parametrized with affine parameters.
  • A later reply acknowledges the distinction between timelike and null paths, emphasizing that both variants of the equation are valid and can be derived from the metric equation without needing the geodesic equation.
  • Another participant introduces a Lagrangian approach, stating that the Lagrangian for the geodesic equation leads to a parametrization with an affine parameter and discusses the implications for timelike and lightlike geodesics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of the geodesic equation for deriving the conservation equations, with some asserting it is not needed while others imply it plays a role. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to understanding the relationship between affine parameters and the geodesic equation.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions made about the nature of geodesics and the definitions of the parameters involved. The discussion does not fully resolve the mathematical steps related to the derivation of the conservation equations.

George Keeling
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TL;DR
Mysterious alternative 4-velocity conservation equation "from geodesic equation". Normal equation being ##U_\nu U^\nu=-1##
I'm still on section 5.4 of Carroll's book on Schwarzschild geodesics

Carroll says "In addition, we always have another constant of the motion for geodesics: the geodesic equation (together with metric compatibility) implies that the quantity $$
\epsilon=-g_{\mu\nu}\frac{dx^\mu}{d\lambda}\frac{dx^\nu}{d\lambda}
$$is constant along the path."

I don't see how that comes from the geodesic equation. But it is very similar to ##U_\nu U^\nu=-1## which comes from the metric equation:$$
-d\tau^2=g_{\mu\nu}dx^\mu dx^\nu\Rightarrow-1=g_{\mu\nu}\frac{dx^\mu}{d\tau}\frac{dx^\nu}{d\tau}=g_{\mu\nu}U^\mu U^\nu=U_\nu U^\nu
$$So ##\epsilon## is just a constant of proportionality between the affine parameter ##\lambda## and the proper time ##\tau##.

What have I missed?
 
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He is treating both null geodesics and timelike geodesics. For timelike geodesics you can take ##\lambda = \tau## and get ##\epsilon = 1##, but not for null geodesics. For null geodesics, ##\epsilon = 0##.
 
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It's only valid for affine parameters ##\lambda##, but you can show that you always can parametrize geodesics with affine parameters.
 
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@vanhees71 and @Orodruin are right and I forgot to explicitly say that for null paths ##d\tau=0##. So both variants of the equation are correct with ##\epsilon = 1, \epsilon = 0## for timelike and null paths and they still follow from the metric equation. In full:$$
-d\tau^2=g_{\mu\nu}dx^\mu dx^\nu\Rightarrow-\frac{d\tau^2}{d\lambda^2}=g_{\mu\nu}\frac{dx^\mu}{d\lambda}\frac{dx^\nu}{d\lambda}
$$Timelike: ##\lambda=\tau## $$
-1=g_{\mu\nu}\frac{dx^\mu}{d\tau}\frac{dx^\nu}{d\tau}
$$Null: ##d\tau=0##$$
0=g_{\mu\nu}\frac{dx^\mu}{d\lambda}\frac{dx^\nu}{d\lambda}
$$
I still don't need the geodesic equation to get to these!
 
This also follows from the fact that one possible Lagrangian (afaik the most convenient one) for the geodesic equation is
$$L=\frac{1}{2} g_{\mu \nu} \dot{x}^{\mu} \dot{x}^{\nu}.$$
Since this is not explicitly dependent on the world-line parameter ##\lambda## (derivatives wrt. ##\lambda## are denoted with a dot), the corresponding "Hamliltonian" is again ##L## itself, i.e., ##L=\text{const}## in this form of the action principle for geodesics you get automatically a parametrization with an affine parameter. For timelike (spacelike) geodesics you can simply set ##L=\pm 1## and for lightlike ones ##L=0##.

The Euler-Lagrange equations are the usual geodesic equations for an affine parametrization,
$$\mathrm{D}_{\lambda} x^{\mu}=\ddot{x}^{\mu} + {\Gamma^{\mu}}_{\nu \rho} \dot{x}^{\nu} \dot{x}^{\rho}$$
with
$$\Gamma_{\mu \nu \rho}=\frac{1}{2} (\partial_{\nu} g_{\mu \rho} + \partial_{\rho} g_{\mu \nu} -\partial_{\mu} g_{\nu \rho}), \quad {\Gamma^{\sigma}}_{\nu \rho} =g^{\mu \sigma} \Gamma_{\mu \nu \rho}.$$
 

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