How Does Energy Transfer from Kinetic to Sound?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the mechanisms of energy transfer, particularly from kinetic energy to sound and light, as well as the philosophical implications of energy's existence. Participants explore the definitions and principles of energy, work, and force, while also addressing deeper questions about the nature of energy and its conservation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants explain that energy transfer occurs through the action of a force, using the example of a baseball hitting a steel plate to illustrate how kinetic energy is converted to sound through vibrations.
  • Others introduce Noether's theorem to discuss the conservation of energy and speculate about the conditions under which energy may have been created, such as during the big bang.
  • There is a suggestion that the total energy of the universe could be zero when considering positive and negative energy, though this remains a philosophical speculation.
  • One participant questions how kinetic energy can be converted to light, leading to a discussion about the role of electromagnetic fields and the transfer of energy through charged particles.
  • Another participant challenges the definitions of force, suggesting that the original definition from Newton could provide a more accurate understanding of energy transfer.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about the existence of energy and its implications, with one noting the difficulty in understanding why energy exists at all.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the mechanisms of energy transfer and the philosophical questions surrounding energy's existence. There is no consensus on the deeper implications of energy conservation or its origins, indicating multiple competing views remain.

Contextual Notes

Discussions include various definitions of force and energy, and the implications of these definitions on understanding energy transfer. Some statements reflect philosophical considerations that may not align with strict scientific discourse.

ngjingyi
Messages
19
Reaction score
0
hello i know that energy can be transferred but cannot be created or destroyed... but how does energy transfer from one to another(eg. kinetic to sound?) does it passes through an unknown medium?

2nd question, since energy cannot be created why does it exist?

Thanks
 
Physics news on Phys.org
To answer your first question the transfer of energy is most often effected by the action of a force. Recall the classic definition of energy as "the ability to do work". Well work is the action of a force across a distance. So for example if you hit a steel plate with a baseball the ball's kinetic energy is transferred to the steel plate by the action of a force at the "point" of contact. The work is done by the large force over the small distance the plate is deforming as it stops the ball. The plate then vibrates which pushes (applies a force) to the air around it. The molecules of air then vibrate as pressure waves (pressure=force/unit area) carrying the energy away as sound.

As to your second question, this is a deep one. There is a theorem in mathematical physics called Noether's theorem (discovered by Emma Noether) which relates conserved quantities such as energy and momentum to symmetries in the laws of physics. Energy is conserved (cannote be created or destroyed) only so long as the laws of physics do not change over time. So one way of answering your question is to speculate that sometime past the laws of physics did change allowing energy to be created. This would be the "big bang" event.

Another way to answer your question is to delve deeply into general relativity. First recall that Einstein's special theory of relativity (SR) equates mass and energy. We can view the mass of an object as stored up energy which can later be released (as in a nuclear reactor, or more completely in the mutual annihilation of matter and anti-matter.) Well also recall that masses produce gravitational fields. When you try to calculate the energy stored in the gravitational field itself i.e. in the curvature of space-time then you run into an interesting phenomenon. The energy in the gravitational field of a given mass is exactly equal in magnitude to the mass itself but with negative value. So the energy in a mass plus its gravity totals to zero.

Now this is a bit slippery as defining energy in general relativity is ... complicated... but the crux of it is you can speculate that the total energy of the universe adds up to zero but as long as you allow negative and positive energy you can work with it.

Ultimately though this is mostly philosophical speculation. When we do physics we are working within a finite domain and all the energy is merely assumed to have come from outside. What's more it is best to view energy (as well as all the other quantities in physics) as our way of quantifying how the universe behaves. The universe just does what it does and the "why" questions are best restricted "why do we describe it this way" formats. Asking "why" beyond this context risks stepping outside physics and into theology. That's ok but one should do so consciously and not think you're still talking science when you've crossed the border into metaphysics.
 
jambaugh said:
The universe just does what it does and the "why" questions are best restricted "why do we describe it this way" formats. Asking "why" beyond this context risks stepping outside physics and into theology. That's ok but one should do so consciously and not think you're still talking science when you've crossed the border into metaphysics.
Well said.
 
jambaugh said:
To answer your first question the transfer of energy is most often effected by the action of a force. Recall the classic definition of energy as "the ability to do work". Well work is the action of a force across a distance. So for example if you hit a steel plate with a baseball the ball's kinetic energy is transferred to the steel plate by the action of a force at the "point" of contact. The work is done by the large force over the small distance the plate is deforming as it stops the ball. The plate then vibrates which pushes (applies a force) to the air around it. The molecules of air then vibrate as pressure waves (pressure=force/unit area) carrying the energy away as sound.

but how do let's say kinetic energy be converted to light?
 
ngjingyi said:
but how do let's say kinetic energy be converted to light?

Well we stretch the meaning of "force" but only a little bit. Recall an electromagnetic field exerts a force on a charged particle. Likewise in a sense the charged particle exerts a "force" on the surrounding electromagnetic field. Since electromagnetic fields carry momentum and energy when a charged particle moves or more importantly accelerates it will induce an additional component to the surrounding electromagnetic field which carries away energy and momentum. Newton's 2nd law continues to hold when you take into account the interaction between charged particles and electromagnetic fields. Note this also applies to gravitational fields as well.

Light is just like radio waves it is an electromagnetic wave.

You can picture the analogy of a boat's kinetic energy being transferred to waves in the water. This analogy is not perfect but pretty good.
 
jambaugh said:
Well we stretch the meaning of "force" but only a little bit.
I don't think you even have to stretch the meaning a little bit as long as you use the original defnintion f = dp/dt instead of the "high school" definition f = ma.
 
DaleSpam said:
I don't think you even have to stretch the meaning a little bit as long as you use the original defnintion f = dp/dt instead of the "high school" definition f = ma.

More general, maybe, original? I think Newton's original definition was F=mA. The concept of momentum rather could be though of as defined in terms of force rather than vis versa.

But if you are looking for a modern definition, I think the best is as the gradient of the Energy (or more properly the Hamiltonian) of a particle as a function of its position. This naturally generalized to abstract forces as the derivatives of the Hamiltonian with respect to configuration coordinates.
 
Energy includes the electricity, heat and other types of energy used to power our homes, businesses, and transportation. It is a critical aspect of modern life.

The scientific definition of energy is the ability to do work. Work is the transfer of energy to move an object a certain distance. The rate at which work is done is called power. The ratio of work and time determines the amount of power used.

How can this be transfer?
Energy can be transferred from one location to another, as in the sun's energy travels through space to Earth. The two ways that energy can be transferred are by doing work and heat transfer.
Why does it exists?
I don't know if there's human who knows its existence but just imagine yourselves/ourselves if energy does not exists?

http://www.ichatscience.com/
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Similar threads

Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
2K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
3K
  • · Replies 32 ·
2
Replies
32
Views
9K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
795
  • · Replies 34 ·
2
Replies
34
Views
5K
  • · Replies 55 ·
2
Replies
55
Views
4K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K