Gravity/Electroweak unification based on generalized Yang-Mills

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a paper proposing a unification of gravitational and electroweak interactions through a generalized Yang-Mills framework. Participants explore the implications of this model, including its mathematical formulation and potential physical interpretations, while also expressing varying levels of skepticism and interest in the paper's approach.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants find the paper interesting and appreciate its straightforward approach, avoiding complex jargon often found in similar works.
  • Questions are raised about the implications of specific equations in the paper, particularly regarding the cosmological constant and the nature of space-time as a continuous flat manifold.
  • One participant criticizes the paper as amateurish, suggesting that it lacks merit due to the authors' self-referential citations and reliance on older texts.
  • Another participant notes that the paper exemplifies "graviweak unification," linking it to broader theories like Garrett Lisi's E8 theory of everything.
  • Concerns are expressed regarding the feasibility of turning the proposed constructions into functioning quantum theories, with references to critiques from other physicists.
  • A later reply challenges the validity of a specific criticism regarding representation, asserting that it does not pertain to quantization issues.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit a mix of interest and skepticism regarding the paper, with no clear consensus on its validity or implications. Some express curiosity about the theoretical aspects, while others question the authors' credibility and the paper's overall merit.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight limitations in the paper's approach, particularly regarding the transition from geometric constructions to viable quantum theories. There is also uncertainty about the implications of specific mathematical formulations presented in the paper.

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http://arxiv.org/abs/1106.2121

Abstract:
Gravitational and electroweak interactions can be unified in analogy with the unification in the Weinberg-Salam theory. The Yang-Mills framework is generalized to include space-time translational group T(4), whose generators $T_{\mu}(=\p/\p x^{\mu})$ do not have constant matrix representations. By gauging $T(4) \times SU(2) \times U(1)$ in flat space-time, we have a new tensor field $\phi_{\mu\nu}$ which universally couples to all particles and anti-particles with the same constant $g$, which has the dimension of length. In this unified model, the T(4) gauge symmetry dictates that all wave equations of fermions, massive bosons and the photon in flat space-time reduce to a Hamilton-Jacobi equation with the same `effective Riemann metric tensor' in the geometric-optics limit. Consequently, the results are consistent with experiments. We demonstrated that the T(4) gravitational gauge field can be quantized in inertial frames.

What do you think?
 
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Interesting paper! Do you understand whether equations 14-16 say something about the cosmological constant? My second question would be; what will this tell us about the nature of the space-time; will it be a continious flat manifold?

berlin
 
Looks interesting indeed. The authors didn't try to fancy up their article with the usual fibre bundle mango jango one often encounters in this kind of topics; that's a relieve. I'll try to read it soon, and if I have any comments or questions I'll come back :)
 
The paper seems too amateurish to have much merit unfortunately. Always be suspicious of authors with big claims who cite mostly themselves and textbooks going back to Landau and Lifgarbagez
 
This paper is an example of "graviweak unification", in which a gauge-theoretic approach to gravity (not to be confused with gauge/gravity duality) is combined with gauge theories of the other forces. This was one of the ingredients that went into Garrett Lisi's E8 theory of everything.

You can see technical criticisms of these "gravi-GUTs" from http://golem.ph.utexas.edu/~distler/blog/archives/002140.html" . Fabrizio Nesti, one of the authors of graviweak unification, shows up at Distler's page, and in the comments at link "1" for Motl. One of Lubos's points is that you can make these constructions at the level of groups and geometric constructions, but you can't turn them into functioning quantum theories.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
mitchell porter said:
One of Lubos's points is that you can make these constructions at the level of groups and geometric constructions, but you can't turn them into functioning quantum theories.

That doesn't make sense. Anyway, the criticism from Distler it is about a unsuitable representation, and not about quantization.
 

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