2 beads and spring going round a loop

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves two identical beads sliding on a frictionless wire shaped into a vertical circular hoop, with a spring threaded between them. The task includes writing the Lagrangian and deriving the equations of motion, with specific focus on the angles and energies involved in the system.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster expresses confusion regarding the setup and relationships between the angles and positions of the beads. Some participants inquire about the kinetic and potential energies of the beads and the spring, while others question how to incorporate arc length into their calculations.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively discussing the definitions of angles and the expressions for kinetic and potential energies. There is a recognition of the need to clarify how the spring's behavior affects the energies involved, but no consensus has been reached on the specific formulations or approaches to take.

Contextual Notes

There appears to be uncertainty regarding the use of arc length and how it relates to the angles and energies in the problem. The original poster indicates a lack of understanding of these concepts, which may affect their ability to proceed with the problem.

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4. Two identical beads of mass m slide on a thin frictionless wire bent into a vertical circular hoop of radius R in the
xz plane (with z vertical), centred on the origin. A light spring of spring constant k and unstretched length b is
threaded onto the wire between the two beads, with the beads attached to the ends, so that the spring is bent into an
arc subtending an angle b = b/R when unstretched. Describe the positions by the angles theta1 and theta2 from the origin,
relative to the vertically downwards direction. Write out the lagrangian, and find the differential equations of
motion.

I am seriously lost when it comes to this question.

I've tried writng the distance ftom the negative z axis, but I end up getting different combinations of beta, theta1 and theta2, at different points on the loop.

Are the 2 angles from the x = 0 line?
 
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Yes, the angles are from the x=0 line.

What is the kinetic energy of bead #1 in terms of [itex]d\theta_1/dt[/itex]?

What is the kinetic energy of bead #2 in terms of [itex]d\theta_2/dt[/itex]?

What is the gravitational potential energy of bead #1 in terms of [itex]\theta_1[/itex]?

What is the gravitational potential energy of bead #2 in terms of [itex]\theta_2[/itex]?

What is the potential energy of the spring is terms of [itex]\theta_1-\theta_2[/itex]?
 
I'm gussing these energies tkae into account that the spring is compressing and decompressing periodically.

Honestly I have no clue for any of the potential or kinetic energies. I'm guessing we need to use arclength somewhere, but I have no idea how to use or when to use it.
 
I can't think how to write then in the terms you listed. All I can think of is

m/2(xdot^2 + ydot^2), but as for using the angles I think you need to know arc length, which I don't, and really just don't know what to do
 

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