311.3.2.16 Find the determinant with variables a b c d e f g h i

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    Determinant Variables
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the determinant of a specific 3x3 matrix containing variables and constants. Participants explore the implications of factoring out constants from the determinant and the properties of row reduction in relation to determinants.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a determinant expression and questions the inclusion of the factor of 5 in the matrix.
  • Another participant confirms the correctness of the determinant expression and explains that the factor of 5 can be factored out, affecting the determinant's value.
  • A different participant expresses confusion regarding the use of complex numbers in matrices.
  • One participant rewrites the determinant expression, showing the distribution of terms and suggesting that the purpose of the factor of 5 is to demonstrate it as a scalar.
  • A participant introduces a question about the uniqueness of reduced row echelon form (RREF) and whether multiple sequences of row operations can lead to different forms.
  • Another participant clarifies that while there are multiple ways to reduce a matrix, there is only one RREF outcome, and emphasizes that row reduction does not preserve the determinant.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the properties of determinants and the implications of factoring out constants, but there is some disagreement regarding the uniqueness of RREF and the role of complex numbers in matrices.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the correctness of their interpretations and calculations, particularly regarding the determinant's value and the implications of row operations.

karush
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$\tiny{311.3.2.16}$
Find the determinants where:
$\left|\begin{array}{rrr}a&b&c\\ d&e&f\\5g&5h&5i\end{array}\right|
=a\left|\begin{array}{rrr}e&f \\5h&5i\end{array}\right|
-b\left|\begin{array}{rrr}d&f \\5g&5i\end{array}\right|
+c\left|\begin{array}{rrr}d&e\\5g&5h\end{array}\right|=$

ok before I proceed on
just want see if this is correct
not sure why they thru the 5's in there
 
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This is correct, though I don't like the use of the "i." (Complex numbers and all.)

If you want to get rid of the 5's:
[math]\left | \begin{matrix} a & b & c \\ d & e & f \\ 5g & 5h & 5i \end{matrix} \right | = 5 \left | \begin{matrix} a & b & c \\ d & e & f \\ g & h & i \end{matrix} \right | [/math]

-Dan
 
yeah, however I didn't know complex numbers were used in an matrix

$
a\left|\begin{array}{rrr}e&f \\5h&5i\end{array}\right|
-b\left|\begin{array}{rrr}d&f \\5g&5i\end{array}\right|
+c\left|\begin{array}{rrr}d&e\\5g&5h\end{array}\right|$
$=a(e5i-5hf)-b(d5i-5gf)+c(d5h-5ge)$
distirbute
$ae5i-a5hf-bd5i+b5gf+cd5d-c5ge$
rewrite
$5(aei-a5f-bdi+bgf+cdd-cge)$
hopefully,,, I quess the purpose of this was to show that 5 is a scaler
no book answer so not sure how to cross check this
 
thot I would throw in this question true or false

In some cases, a matrix may be row reduced to more than one matrix in reduced echelon form, using different sequences of row

ok but isn't there just one form of RREF possoble if can be derived? there are multiple ways to reduce it but only one outcome
 
First, any numbers, including complex numbers, can appear in a matrix.

Second, row reduction of a matrix does NOT preserve its determinant. For example, factoring a number out of an entire row (or column) divides the determinant by that number. That is why, when Topsquark factored the "5"out of the bottom row, he multiplied the determinant by 5.

Swapping two rows, multiplies the determinant by -1.

Finally, adding a multiple of one row to another does not change the determinant.
 

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