4th Order Variation of Parameters

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving the fourth-order differential equation y^(4) + 2y'' + y = sin(t) using the method of variation of parameters. Participants explore the complementary solution and the particular solution, addressing the complexities involved in the calculations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses difficulty in finding the complementary solution and notes an error in their characteristic equation.
  • Another participant suggests a particular solution of the form At^2 sin(t) + Bt^2 cos(t) and later corrects themselves to align with variation of parameters.
  • A different participant outlines the derivatives of the proposed particular solution, leading to a complex set of equations that they find challenging to solve.
  • Some participants agree that the differential equations aspect is settled, leaving only algebra to resolve, while noting the presence of a single nonzero right-hand side.
  • There is a discussion about reducing the equations and the relationship between different forms of the differential equation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the differential equations part is settled, but there is no consensus on the best approach to handle the resulting algebraic complexity. Multiple views on the method of solving the equations remain present.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the algebraic manipulation required to solve the derived equations, indicating potential limitations in their current approach.

VitaX
Messages
183
Reaction score
0
Find the complementary solution of [itex]y^\left(4\right) + 2y'' + y = sint[/itex]

Homogeneous Form would be [itex]y^\left(4\right) + 2y'' + y = 0[/itex]

[itex]r^4 + 2r^2 + r = 0 \rightarrow r(r^3 + 2r + 1) = 0[/itex]

This is where I'm stuck. Once I find [itex]y_c(t)[/itex] I should be able to finish the problem, but I'm having trouble at this step. What would be the next step here?

The book's solution is [itex]y_c(t) = C_1 cost + C_2 sint + C_3 tcost + C_4 tsint[/itex] which would suggest complex numbers involved here.

Edit: Found my error, it was in the r equation.
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
(D4+2D2+1)=(D2+1)2
since sine is already a solution consider a particular solution of the form
At^2 sin t+Bt^2 cos t

edit:I forgot you wanted variation of parameters
just take
[itex]y(t) = C_1(t) cost + C_2(t) sint + C_3(t) tcost + C_4(t) tsint[/itex]
complex numbers are optional, you just need to be able to solve
(D2+1)y=0
to deal with quadratic terms that are irreducible over reals
 
Last edited:
After taking the particular solution to be:

[itex]y_p(t) = U_1 (t)cost + U_2 (t)sint + U_3 (t)tcost + U_4 (t)tsint[/itex]

I then take the 4 derivatives and I ended up with the following 4 Equations (1st 3 are from the conditions that the U(t) derivatives add up to 0 while the last equation is derived from inputting the the derivatives into the original DE and cancelling out like terms):

[itex]U'_1 (t)cost + U'_2 (t)sint + U'_3 (t)tcost + U'_4 (t)tsint = 0[/itex]

[itex]-U'_1 (t)sint + U'_2 (t)cost + U'_3 (t)cost - U'_3 (t)tsint + U'_4 (t)sint + U'_4 (t)tcost = 0[/itex]

[itex]-U'_1 (t)cost - U'_2 (t)sint - 2U'_3 (t)sint - U'_3 (t)tscost + 2U'_4 (t)cost - U'_4 (t)tsint = 0[/itex]

[itex]U'_1 (t)sint - U'_2 (t)cost - 3U'_3 (t)cost + U'_3 (t)tsint - 3U'_4 (t)sint - U'_4 (t)tcost = sint[/itex]

But at this point, it is a complete monster. Can anyone possibly solve this mess?
 
It is a bit messy, but the differential equations part it settled and only algebra remains. It also helps that only one right hand side is nonzero. It is also possible to solve
(D2+1)y=f and then solve it again hence solving
(D2+1)2y=f
 
lurflurf said:
It is a bit messy, but the differential equations part it settled and only algebra remains. It also helps that only one right hand side is nonzero. It is also possible to solve
(D2+1)y=f and then solve it again hence solving
(D2+1)2y=f

Hmm, what exactly do you mean by those 2 equations?
 
(D2+1)y=f
y''+y=f
(D2+1)2y=f
y''''+2y''+y=f
the second can be reduced to the first
if
u''+u=f
and
y''+y=u
then
y''''+2y''+y=f

or just do all that algebra
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 36 ·
2
Replies
36
Views
6K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
Replies
1
Views
2K