9.4.5 Identify the equilibrium values

  • Context: MHB 
  • Thread starter Thread starter karush
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Equilibrium
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around identifying equilibrium values for differential equations, specifically focusing on the stability of these equilibria. Participants explore the concepts of stable and unstable equilibria through examples from a textbook problem set.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that 0 is the only equilibrium value for the equation $y'=\sqrt{5}$, while another clarifies that since $y' \neq 0$, there are no equilibrium solutions.
  • In a later post, a participant identifies the equilibrium values for the equation $y'=(y-3)(y-4)(y-5)$ as 3, 4, and 5, and begins to analyze their stability.
  • Another participant examines the behavior near the equilibrium at $y=3$, concluding it is unstable because solutions move away from this point.
  • A detailed analysis is provided for the equilibrium at $y=4$, indicating it is stable, as solutions move toward this point from both sides.
  • The participant also concludes that $y=5$ is unstable, as solutions move away from this equilibrium as well.
  • One participant shares a method involving graphing $y'=f(y)$ to visualize the stability of equilibria, reinforcing the conclusions drawn about their stability.
  • Another participant expresses appreciation for the clarity provided by the graphical representation and inquires about the method used to illustrate the arrows on the graph.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the identification of equilibrium values and their stability for the equation $y'=(y-3)(y-4)(y-5)$. However, there is an initial disagreement regarding the existence of equilibrium solutions for the equation $y'=\sqrt{5}$, which remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes various assumptions about the definitions of equilibrium and stability, and the analysis relies on the behavior of solutions near the identified equilibria. Some mathematical steps and reasoning may depend on specific interpretations of the differential equations involved.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students preparing for tests on differential equations, particularly those interested in understanding equilibrium solutions and their stability in mathematical modeling contexts.

karush
Gold Member
MHB
Messages
3,240
Reaction score
5
$\tiny{9.4.5}$
$$y'=\sqrt{5},y>0$$
Identify the equilibrium values
which are stable and unstable?

I assume 0 is the only one
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Why would you "assume" that? Are you clear on what an equilibrium solution is?

An "equilibrium" position is one that does not change, such as a ball sitting at the top of a hill or at the bottom of valley as opposed to a ball on the side of the hill or the valley.
An equilibrium position is "stable" if a slight change from that equilibrium position does not result is a large change and "unstable" if it does. The ball sitting on the top of a hill is in an "unstable equilibrium" because as soon as it moves off the top it will roll all the way down the hill. A ball sitting at the bottom of a valley is in a "stable equilibrium" because if it moves slightly from that position, it will quickly roll back to the bottom.

An "equilibrium solution" to a differential equation is a constant solution- if y(t) is an equilibrium solution then y'= 0. Here we are told that y'= \sqrt{5}, a non-zero constant. Since y' is never 0 there is no equilibrium solution.
 
that was helpful
l have more to do so hope it sinks in

the next one is$\tiny{9.4. 7}$
$$y'=(y-3)(y-4)(y-5)$$
identify the equilibrium values
3,4,5
which are stable and which are unstable?
 
Let's look at the behavior of the solutions near the equilibrium solution $y=3$. Suppose we have:

$$y(0)=2.9$$

Then we see:

$$y'<0$$

And for:

$$y(0)=3.1$$

We find:

$$0<y'$$

So, we find solutions are moving away from $y=3$, so that's an unstable equilibrium solution. What do you find near the other equilibrium solutions?
 
karush said:
that was helpful
l have more to do so hope it sinks in

the next one is$\tiny{9.4. 7}$
$$y'=(y-3)(y-4)(y-5)$$
identify the equilibrium values
3,4,5
which are stable and which are unstable?
Okay, 3, 4, and 5 are equilibrium values because:
when y= 3, y'= (3- 3)(3- 4)(3- 5)= 0
when y= 4, y'= (4- 3)(4- 4)(4- 5)= 0
when y= 5, y'= (5- 3)(5- 4)(5- 5)= 0.

Now, if y< 3, all of y- 3, y- 4, and y- 5 are negative and the product of three negative numbers is negative. For y< 3, y'< 0.

If 3< y< 4, y- 3 is positive while y- 4 and y- 5 are still negative. The product of two negative and one positive number is positive. For 3< y< 4, y'> 0.

Think about what that means. If y is close to 3 but a little less than 3, y' is negative so y is decreasing, moving away from 3. If y is close to 3 but a little more than 3, y' is positive so y is increasing, moving away from 3. In either case, y is moving away from 3. y= 3 is an unstable equilibrium.

If 4< y< 5, both y- 3 and y- 4 are positive while y- 5 is still negative. The product of two positive and one negative number is negative. For 4< y< 5, y'< 0.

Now, if y is close to 4 but less than 4, y' is positive so y is increasing, moving toward 4. If y is close to 4 but a little more than 4, y' is negative so y is decreasing, moving toward 4. 4 is a stable equilibrium.

Finally, for y> 5, all three of y- 3, y- 4, and y- 5 are positive. The product of three positive numbers is positive. For y> 5, y'> 0.

So if y is close to 5 but less than 5, y'< 0 so y is decreasing, moving away from 5. If y' is close to 5 but more than 5, y'> 0 so y is increasing, moving away from 5. y= 5 is an unstable equilibrium.
 
much mahalo
great help much more ready for test

which is tomorrow...yikes
 
karush said:
much mahalo
great help much more ready for test

which is tomorrow...yikes

Here's the method I was taught as a student:

1.) Graph $$y'=f(y)$$.

2.) Near the roots, where $$f(y)<0$$ draw an arrow along the curve, in the direction of decreasing $y$ and where $$0<f(y)$$ draw an arrow along the curve in the direction of increasing $y$.

For this problem, we would have:

View attachment 6443

Now it's easy to see that:
  • $$y=3$$ is unstable.
  • $$y=4$$ is stable.
  • $$y=5$$ is unstable.
 

Attachments

  • equilibrium.png
    equilibrium.png
    4.3 KB · Views: 95
well that sure made it less confusing

looks like Desmos
how did you put in the arrows?

the colors looked the same to me??
 
karush said:
well that sure made it less confusing

looks like Desmos
how did you put in the arrows?

the colors looked the same to me??

Yes, I used the Desmos calculator to generate the curve, then grabbed a screenshot and edited the image to add the arrows. If I had had more time, I would have tried to do it using TikZ. :D
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K