-a.3.2.96 Convert a 2nd order homogeneous ODE into a system of first order ODEs

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around converting a second-order homogeneous ordinary differential equation (ODE) into a system of first-order ODEs. Participants explore different methods for this conversion and subsequent solution approaches, including the use of eigenvalues and characteristic equations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests using the substitution \( u = y' \) to convert the second-order ODE \( y'' + 5y' + 6y = 0 \) into a system of first-order equations.
  • Another participant corrects the first by emphasizing the need to include the term "6y" in the system, presenting the equations as \( y' = u \) and \( u' + 5u + 6y = 0 \).
  • A participant expresses skepticism about the necessity of converting to a system of first-order equations, noting that the original second-order equation can be solved directly using its characteristic equation.
  • Some participants discuss the eigenvalues of the matrix representation of the system, with one participant calculating the eigenvalues as \( \lambda_1 = -3 \) and \( \lambda_2 = -2 \), leading to a general solution of the form \( y(x) = Ae^{-2x} + Be^{-3x} \).
  • There is a clarification that the introduction of the variable \( u \) is not a substitution in the traditional sense but rather a necessary step to create a system of equations.
  • One participant notes that finding the eigenvalues is valid and suggests that the general solution can be expressed without needing to find \( u \).

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing opinions on whether converting to a system of first-order equations is beneficial. While some agree on the correctness of the eigenvalue approach and the resulting general solution, there is no consensus on the necessity of the transformation from a second-order to a first-order system.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight the limitations of their approaches, such as the dependence on the definitions of variables and the potential for confusion regarding the transformation process. The discussion also reflects varying comfort levels with different methods of solving differential equations.

karush
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given the differential equation
$\quad y''+5y'+6y=0$
(a)convert into a system of first order (homogeneous) differential equation
(b)solve the system.

ok just look at an example the first step would be
$\quad u=y'$

then
$\quad u'+5u+6=0$

so far perhaps?
 
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Not quite. Your system of first order equations is
y'= u
u'+ 5u+ 6y= 0. You forgot the "y" in "6y"!

You could also write that as the matrix equation $\begin{pmatrix}y' \\ u'\end{pmatrix}= \begin{pmatrix}0 & 1 \\ -6 &-5 \end{pmatrix}\begin{pmatrix}y \\ u \end{pmatrix}$
 
HallsofIvy said:
Not quite. Your system of first order equations is
y'= u
u'+ 5u+ 6y= 0. You forgot the "y" in "6y"!

You could also write that as the matrix equation $\begin{pmatrix}y' \\ u'\end{pmatrix}= \begin{pmatrix}0 & 1 \\ -6 &-5 \end{pmatrix}\begin{pmatrix}y \\ u \end{pmatrix}$

so are you suggesting the u substitution is not the best way to go
in then now we have 2 variables u and y
 
Since it is, initially, a "second order linear equation with constant coefficients", about the easiest kind of equation there is, I personally would not change it to two first order equations. The "characteristic equation" is r^2+ 5r+ 6= (r+ 2)(r+ 3)= 0 which has solution r= -2 and r= -3. The general solution to the equation is y(x)= Ae^{-2x}+ Be^{-3x}.

But I know that some people just feel more comfortable with systems of first order equations or matrix equations (I suspect those are engineers who use computer solvers). The method I first learned to solve a pair of equations like y'= u, u'= -5u- 6y was to differentiate the first equation again, to get y''= u' and then replace u' and u in the second equation to get y''= -5y'+ 6y again!


 
Last edited by a moderator:
karush said:
so are you suggesting the u substitution is not the best way to go
in then now we have 2 variables u and y
Perhaps you are not understanding what the question is asking. There is no "u substitution" in the "Calculus" sense. We are introducing the new variable u so that instead or a single (second order) equation in y we have two equations (first order) in y and u. That was what the problem asked you to do- change the single second order equation to two first order equations. In order to have two equations we have to have two "unknowns".
 
HallsofIvy said:
Not quite. Your system of first order equations is
y'= u
u'+ 5u+ 6y= 0. You forgot the "y" in "6y"!

You could also write that as the matrix equation $\begin{pmatrix}y' \\ u'\end{pmatrix}= \begin{pmatrix}0 & 1 \\ -6 &-5 \end{pmatrix}\begin{pmatrix}y \\ u \end{pmatrix}$

so I was going to the eiganvalues of the matrix but we have y' and u'
 
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Why is that a problem? Yes, find the eigenvalues of the matrix. Calling them $\lambda_1$ and $\lambda_2$, the general solution is $y(x)= C_1e^{\lambda_1 x}+ C_2e^{\lambda_2 x}$. You don't need to find u.
 
$\left[ \begin{array}{rr} - \lambda & 1 \\ -6 & - \lambda - 5 \end{array} \right]
=- \lambda \left(- \lambda - 5\right) + 6=\lambda^2+5\lambda+6=(\lambda+3)(\lambda+2)$
the roots are
$\lambda_1=-3$
$\lambda_2=-2$

so the general solution is

$$\displaystyle y(x)= Ae^{-2x}+ Be^{-3x}$$
 
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Yes, that is correct. Recall that the original second order differential equation was y''+ 5y'+ 6y= 0. If you "try" a solution of the form y(x)= e^{\lambda x} the equation becomes \lambda^2 e^{\lambda x}+ 5\lambda e^{\lambda x}+ 6e^{\lambda x}= (\lambda^2+ 5\lambda+ 6)e^{\lambda x}= 0 and since e^{\lambda x} is never 0 so we must have \lambda^2+ 5\lambda+ 6= 0, the same as the "characteristic equation" (or "eigenvalue equation") for that matrix. That equation, (\lambda+ 3)(\lambda+ 2)= 0, has roots \lambda= -3 and \lambda= -2 so e^{-3x} and e^{-2x} are solutions and the "general solution" is, as you say, y(x)= Ae^{-3x}+ Be^{-2x}.
 

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