A double in this example problem

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a specific problem from the chapter on Matrix Eigenvalue problems in the textbook Mathematical Methods for Studying by Weber, Arfken and Harris. Participants are examining the expression $$\frac{F_x}{F_y}\neq\frac{x}{y}$$ and its implications regarding the direction of force relative to the minimum at the origin (x=0, y=0). The scope includes conceptual understanding and mathematical reasoning related to force vectors and their relationships to position vectors.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about how the expression $$\frac{F_x}{F_y}\neq\frac{x}{y}$$ is derived and its physical interpretation.
  • Another participant explains that if the ratios are equal, it indicates that the angles of the force and position vectors are the same, suggesting a central force problem, which is not the case here.
  • A different participant proposes that the external torque along the $$\hat{k}$$ direction for a central force is zero, questioning the correctness of this reasoning.
  • One participant reiterates that the force is not directed toward the minimum at the origin, emphasizing the implications of the external torque condition.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not appear to reach a consensus on the interpretation of the expression or the implications for the problem. There are competing views regarding the nature of the force and its relationship to the position vector.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference concepts such as central force problems and external torque, but the discussion does not resolve the mathematical steps or assumptions underlying these concepts.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in mathematical methods in physics, particularly those studying force vectors and their relationships in the context of eigenvalue problems, may find this discussion relevant.

Muthumanimaran
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I am currently self-studying Mathematical Methods for Studying by Weber, Arfken and Harris. In the chapter Matrix Eigenvalue problems, I'm stuck in a particular step in a particular problem. Please look at the Image attached. The expression which is boxed, $$\frac{F_x}{F_y}\neq\frac{x}{y}$$ in the textbook as we can see, it is said that the force will not be directed toward the minimum at $x=0$ & $y=0$. Actually this is the step I don't understand, how the expression came up here. I am trying to visualize this problem physically, but I am unable to come up with this expression. Please give me some hint or information if possible.
 

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If the ratios are equal it means that the angle of the force can be the same as the angle from the origin to the position (x,y).
$$cot^{-1}(\frac{x}{y}) = \theta_{X} \;\;\;\;cot^{-1}(\frac{F_x}{F_y}) = \theta_{F} $$
$$\frac{x}{y} =\frac{F_x}{F_y}\; \text{implies}\;\theta_{X}=\theta_{F}$$
That is not the case for the given problem, where most of the places the angles are different. Another way of writing this could be
$$\vec{F} \neq f(\vec{r}) \vec{r},\, \text{most } \vec{r} $$
So the force vector is not proportional to the position vector, thus the problem is not a "central force" problem with the center at the origin. So it's different from problems like the Kepler problem of two objects with gravity.
 
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Or otherwise can I say, External torque along $${\hat{k}}$$ direction for a central force is zero. i.e, $$F_x{y}-F_y{x}=0$$, is my reasoning correct?
 
Last edited:
Muthumanimaran said:
the force will not be directed toward the minimum at $x=0$ & $y=0$
Muthumanimaran said:
External torque along ${\hat{k}}$ direction
On this site, use a pair of # symbols at each end (inline LaTeX) or a pair of $ symbols at each end (standalone LaTeX). A single $ at each end doesn't do anything, nor does a single # at each end.
 

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