A glance beyond the quantum model

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the reconciliation of Quantum Mechanics with General Relativity, particularly exploring the implications of a post-quantum theory as proposed by Navascues and Wunderlich. Participants examine the foundational principles of such theories, the nature of particles and fields, and the potential for low-energy Bell-type experiments to inform the unification of quantum theory and gravity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that discussing particles inherently involves their associated fields, while others suggest that measurement results can be discussed independently of the quantum formalism.
  • There is a debate on whether fields are discrete or continuous, with references to quantum field theory (QFT) on a lattice and the implications of universality at different scales.
  • One participant argues that the Correspondence Principle serves as a methodological requirement, aiding in the development of new theories by linking them to existing empirical frameworks.
  • Concerns are raised regarding the necessity of locality and non-contextuality assumptions in the context of random field models versus classical particle models.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about the existence of low-energy Bell-type experiments that could provide insights into the unification of quantum theory and gravity.
  • One participant shares thoughts on infrared divergences in QED, suggesting that treating charged particles with their associated fields may offer a more satisfactory resolution to these issues.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion features multiple competing views, particularly regarding the nature of particles and fields, the applicability of the Correspondence Principle, and the potential for low-energy experiments. No consensus has been reached on these topics.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in the current understanding of the relationship between quantum mechanics and classical concepts, as well as the unresolved nature of certain mathematical assumptions and frameworks.

  • #31
Halcyon-on said:
dear Peter Morgan, you missed another approach inspired to the Elze's idea of stroboscopic quantization, to the 't Hooft's idea of particles moving fast in a circle and which inspired your friend Wharton's work on the Hamiltonian's principle. Maybe it requires a little bit of conceptual effort. Or maybe it doesn't involve assumptions compatible with the Star-Trak fiction. Or maybe it doesn't need to involve the Planck scale, nor hidden variables, nor many universes. Or maybe it reproduces exactly the canonical and the Feynman formulation of quantum mechanics without involving any conjecture but only through rigorous mathematical demonstrations. Maybe the solution to the problematics of quantum mechanics are given by a simple and unexplored assumption that put all the pieces in the right place. To have a more complete vision of the possibilities beyond quantum mechanics you should try to really understand the following two papers: [B][PLAIN]http://arxiv.org/abs/1001.2718[/B][/url] and http://arxiv.org/abs/0903.3680 .

Wild Card Mr. halcion, Cogratulations !

that work was presented at
The 10th Symposium on the
Frontiers of Fundamental Physics.
School of Physics, The University of Western Australia
24th – 26th November 2009





------------------------
apart, there is a paper,that i can not find.
Field theory in compact space-time — Donatello Dolce —

The assumption of compact space-time dimensions for ordinary relativistic fields gives remarkable overlaps with the ordinary quantum theory. Formal, phenomenological and conceptual consequences of such assumption are briefly discussed.
 
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  • #32
Peter Morgan said:
Why would I want to go away when you say such interesting things?
Really? That's the nicest thing anyone's said to me in quite a while. (Sad, huh?)

[...coherent states...] [...triangular decomposition...]
[...] Do you have a reference, or perhaps this will be in the Neumaier & Westra,
which I haven't looked at yet?
The basic stuff is in Neumaier & Westra, but is kinda spread out in various places.
The triangular decomposition concept is not difficult though. You could try this classic
review paper:

Zhang, Feng, Gilmore, "Coherent states: Theory and some applications",
Rev Mod Phys, vol 62, no 4, pp867-927, (1990)

It probably won't be at all obvious though why I mentioned this stuff
in the current context of algebras and probability. If so, feel free to bug
me again later.

I've requested [Dirac's "Lectures of QFT"] from the Yale library. From my point of view, the Heisenberg picture is much more appropriate, given that the state is timeless (formally, as a mathematical model, without metaphysical commitment, at least from me). I definitely want to see Dirac's argument.
If you have online journal access, you can get the basic idea from Dirac's
"QED without dead wood" paper. His "Lectures of QFT" are essentially an
elaboration of the ideas in that paper.

I'm not clear whether you mean to introduce a particular kind of structure for foo,
or whether you mean that you want to sidestep this type of approach to deforming the Hamiltonian?
I'm not clear about it either. :-)

From my block world point of view, the complete structure of an interacting field is specified by the inner product on the function space, by the Lie field structure functional, and by the vacuum state. The Hamiltonian is then a derived structure, by the introduction of active transformations, instead of being fundamental, so the issue you mention doesn't come up in the same way.
Sure, once one has the (non-perturbative) algebra of the interacting fields,
one has almost everything.
 
  • #33
yoda jedi said:
Wild Card Mr. halcion, Cogratulations !

that work was presented at
The 10th Symposium on the
Frontiers of Fundamental Physics.
School of Physics, The University of Western Australia
24th – 26th November 2009





------------------------
apart, there is a paper,that i can not find.
Field theory in compact space-time — Donatello Dolce —

The assumption of compact space-time dimensions for ordinary relativistic fields gives remarkable overlaps with the ordinary quantum theory. Formal, phenomenological and conceptual consequences of such assumption are briefly discussed.

I have no idea. The only papers I know are those above. The first one is an original and very long paper (not yet published on a journal, but I can imagine why). The second is a concise talk given in Sweden (QTRF5). I think he has impressing results and intriguing philosophical implications, which would be very interesting to discuss.
 

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