A GR question about null surfaces, vectors and coordinates

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of null vectors, null surfaces, and their significance in the context of general relativity, particularly within the framework of metrics and coordinate systems like the Eddington-Finkelstein coordinates. Participants explore the definitions and implications of these terms, as well as their relationships to geodesics and specific examples in Schwarzschild spacetime.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks clarification on the significance of the term "null" as it relates to metrics in general relativity.
  • Another participant explains that a null vector is defined as a vector with zero length, specifically one that satisfies the condition ##g_{ab} k^a k^b = 0##.
  • A null surface is described as having null tangent vectors, with the event horizon of a black hole provided as an example.
  • A null geodesic is defined as a geodesic whose tangent vector is null, such as the worldline of a light ray.
  • A follow-up question is raised about the meaning of a "null coordinate," which is answered by stating that it refers to the vector field associated with the coordinate being null.
  • One participant provides an example involving the surface ##\Sigma## given by ##r = 2M## in Schwarzschild spacetime, explaining the relationship between the normal vector field and the null hypersurface.
  • Another participant asks for clarification on the notation used in the example, specifically regarding the scalar product of the vector field.
  • A response clarifies that the notation refers to the scalar product (dot product) of the vector field with itself.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the definitions of null vectors, null surfaces, and null geodesics, but there are points of clarification and further questions that indicate ongoing exploration and uncertainty regarding specific terms and notations.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes technical definitions and relationships that may depend on specific assumptions about the metric and the context of general relativity. Some notations and concepts may require further elaboration for complete understanding.

qtm912
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I wondered anyone can explain the significance of the above as applied to metrics in the context of general relativity. This came up when the video lecturer in GR mentioned that r for example, was null or this or that vector or surface was null, say in the context of the eddington finkelstein coordinate system. I am unable to grasp the meaning or significance of the word null. I think null geodesics are clear however but even here not sure if there is any connection with null vectors etc.
 
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A null vector is a vector whose length is zero; that is, a vector ##k^a## such that ##g_{ab} k^a k^b = 0##, where ##g_{ab}## is the metric. One of the things that makes spacetime different from an ordinary Riemannian space is that you can have vectors with zero length that are not the zero vector.

A null surface is a surface that has null tangent vectors; in other words, there are null vectors that lie completely within the surface. For example, the event horizon of a black hole is a null surface.

A null geodesic is just a geodesic whose tangent vector is null; for example, the worldline of a light ray traveling through a vacuum is a null geodesic. So there is indeed a close connection between null vectors and null geodesics.
 
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Ok thanks I especially found helpful your comment about 4 vectors that have zero length but that are not the zero vector. A follow on question if ok : what then is a null coordinate.
 
It means the vector field associated with the coordinate is null.
 
Ok many thanks to you both for clarifying.
 
By the way, in case you wanted an example, consider the surface ##\Sigma## given by ##r = 2M## in Schwarzschild space-time. The vector field ##\nabla r## is a normal vector field to ##\Sigma##. Now ##\nabla r = g^{\mu r}\partial_{\mu} = (1 - \frac{2M}{r})\partial_r## so ##g(\nabla r, \nabla r) = (1 - \frac{2M}{r})##. On ##\Sigma## then, ##g(\nabla r, \nabla r) = 0## so ##\nabla r## is null on ##\Sigma## meaning ##\Sigma## is a null hypersurface ("hyper" because it is of codimension 1); this is of course just the event horizon of the Schwarzschild black hole.

Note that for any tangent vector ##v \in T_p \Sigma##, ##v \perp \nabla r## implies that ##v## is itself null so this is equivalent to Peter's definition above.
 
Hi again, I am a bit unfamiliar with the notation here, how is g(del-r, del-r) defined?
 
qtm912 said:
Hi again, I am a bit unfamiliar with the notation here, how is g(del-r, del-r) defined?
That's the scalar product (the dot product) of the vector field del-r with itself.
 

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