A question about politicians' names

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the use of nicknames and informal names for politicians, exploring why certain names are preferred or avoided in public discourse. It touches on cultural perceptions, historical context, and the implications of name choices in political identity.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that "Tony" is a common diminutive for "Anthony," while others express uncertainty about the logic behind the use of certain nicknames for politicians.
  • One participant lists various names and their common nicknames, suggesting a pattern in how names are shortened.
  • There are observations about specific politicians, such as John Fitzgerald Kennedy being referred to as "JFK" and Lyndon Baines Johnson as "LBJ," while Richard Nixon and Barack Obama do not have similar abbreviations.
  • Some participants speculate on the reasons behind these naming conventions, including public perception and the desire for relatability among politicians.
  • There are discussions about the implications of using informal names in political contexts, with references to historical figures and their nicknames.
  • Questions arise about the use of aliases within families and social circles, and whether these names can lead to confusion or anger among individuals.
  • Participants mention that legal names can differ from commonly used names, with examples from different countries regarding naming conventions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the topic, with no clear consensus on the logic behind nickname usage or the implications of informal names in politics. Multiple competing perspectives remain throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight that the use of nicknames can be influenced by cultural and historical factors, and that naming conventions may vary significantly across different contexts and regions.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying political communication, cultural studies, or linguistics, particularly in relation to names and identity in public life.

  • #31
mech-eng said:
When a family have two sons, can parents give Tony to one and Anthony to another and same question for
Michael and Mickey. Is Rickey same kind of situation of Michael to Mickey?

Well, if the parents are not too bright, I suppose they could call one son 'Tony' and another 'Anthony'. Seems like it would get confusing after a while. It's like the old 'Newhart' show, where the sketchy guy, Larry (also short for 'Lawrence'), introduces his siblings, "This is my brother Darryl, and this is my other brother Darryl."



Rickey is a diminutive, usually for 'Richard'.
 
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  • #32
SteamKing said:
I'm not sure what country you're speaking about, but there are more than enough 'Charlies' to shake a stick at in the US, so we must not have gotten that memo.

I wonder what HRH Prince Charlie thinks of this? Or Charlie Brown?

I am confused now , Is Charlie like Anthony or Tony? And do people give strong and beautiful animals' names to their children such as lion and eagle. It is very popular to give hunting birds names to sons and in the past lion was also popular in Turkey. Some of our kings were named by their parents as Kılıçaslan which literally means sword-lion and Alpaslan which is bravelion. This names are similar to European names Louis and Adolph which both means lucky wolf.
Meanwhile Charlie is an insult in Turkey which means stupid. I think it started from a commedy program with a funny monkey called Charlie on the tv. Is there still a problem with Adolph?

Best Regards.
 
  • #33
mal4mac said:
No... Imagine shouting for your dog in a park - you'd get some very puzzled kids! Here's a UK list:
...
It's a living rule in your area :cry:. How sad! I'm not even allowed to call my own pet what I want.
It's probably that excusing the public for making noise is what I might do instead of yelling at my own dog.
 
  • #34
mech-eng said:
I am confused now , Is Charlie like Anthony or Tony? And do people give strong and beautiful animals' names to their children such as lion and eagle. It is very popular to give hunting birds names to sons and in the past lion was also popular in Turkey. Some of our kings were named by their parents as Kılıçaslan which literally means sword-lion and Alpaslan which is bravelion. This names are similar to European names Louis and Adolph which both means lucky wolf.

Meanwhile Charlie is an insult in Turkey which means stupid. I think it started from a commedy program with a funny monkey called Charlie on the tv. Is there still a problem with Adolph?

Best Regards.

I can't speak for why 'Charlie' is an insult in Turkey. It doesn't seem to carry the same insult factor in the English-speaking world. Is it perhaps because 'Charlie' sounds similar to a derogatory word in Turkish?

As for Adolph (or Adolf), yes I would think that the numbers of people with this name are declining, although there are probably a few still left.

At one time, there were more than a few Germans with the first name 'Wolf' or 'Wolfgang', both of which derive as you would expect from having to do with wolves. However, in the West, it became the custom for the given (or first) name to be chosen from one of the saints of the Catholic Church, or from the Bible, so names after animals gradually died out. Popular names once included those of the Romans, like Titus or Marcus, but these seem to be on the decline. With the herd mentality present in people nowadays, it's not uncommon to find more than one 'Jason' or 'Joshua' or 'Madison' in a class of schoolkids.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Given_name

Giving a name is something which has complex roots in history, culture, and custom.
 
  • #35
SteamKing said:
I can't speak for why 'Charlie' is an insult in Turkey. It doesn't seem to carry the same insult factor in the English-speaking world. Is it perhaps because 'Charlie' sounds similar to a derogatory word in Turkish?

As for Adolph (or Adolf), yes I would think that the numbers of people with this name are declining, although there are probably a few still left.

At one time, there were more than a few Germans with the first name 'Wolf' or 'Wolfgang', both of which derive as you would expect from having to do with wolves. However, in the West, it became the custom for the given (or first) name to be chosen from one of the saints of the Catholic Church, or from the Bible, so names after animals gradually died out. Popular names once included those of the Romans, like Titus or Marcus, but these seem to be on the decline. With the herd mentality present in people nowadays, it's not uncommon to find more than one 'Jason' or 'Joshua' or 'Madison' in a class of schoolkids.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Given_name

Giving a name is something which has complex roots in history, culture, and custom.

No, it is not similar to any bad word in Turkish. It is probably from a tv program as I said my previous post. There is name in Turkey as Çağrı which has a little similar prononciation with English Charlie so sometimes people call the person with the name Çağrı as Charlie for make him angry. Çağrı means call/calling somebody.
 
  • #36
SteamKing said:
As for Adolph (or Adolf), yes I would think that the numbers of people with this name are declining, although there are probably a few still left.

It is out of logic because there might be millions of White racist people in the USA. These people see Adolph Hitler as a hero, a prophet or a savior. So there must be a lot of people with name Adolph. A few year ago, I read from a newspaper that a man give exactly name Adolph Hitler to his son then government took the child from his parents because of their psychological problems. You might also know their famous website Stormfront.org.

And this website shows that Europeans and Americans really love wolfes.
http://www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/1/Adolph
http://www.thinkbabynames.com/names/1/wolf
 
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  • #37
SteamKing said:
I'm not sure what country you're speaking about, but there are more than enough 'Charlies' to shake a stick at in the US, so we must not have gotten that memo.

I wonder what HRH Prince Charlie thinks of this? Or Charlie Brown?

He's never called Prince Charlie! It's always Prince Charles. I'm speaking purely about the UK.
 
  • #38
mech-eng said:
Seems that you are wrong. Look this site choose dog, USA and male you will see Jack, Harry ...

I'm in the UK.
 
  • #39
English people and German people come from the same origin, I think English people are also German like Danish, Dutch, Norvegian and Swedish people. I think there must be a lot of people with German names in England in the past but they should have changed their names because of anti-German feelings. This supports my theory:Saxe-Coburg-Gotha was a name of a royal family in England at the beginning of 1900s but owners changed it to Windsor because of anti-German feelings and proves wars have changed people's name.
 
  • #40
SteamKing said:
Rickey is a diminutive, usually for 'Richard'.

That's Ricky in the UK - Ricky Gervais.
 
  • #41
SteamKing said:
I can't speak for why 'Charlie' is an insult in Turkey. It doesn't seem to carry the same insult factor in the English-speaking world. Is it perhaps because 'Charlie' sounds similar to a derogatory word in Turkish?

As I keep saying, "He's a right Charlie!" is an insult in the UK, it may have been transported to Turkey (we get, or got, everywhere :devil: )
 
  • #42
Medicol said:
It's a living rule in your area :cry:. How sad! I'm not even allowed to call my own pet what I want.
It's probably that excusing the public for making noise is what I might do instead of yelling at my own dog.

I didn't say it was a rule! Of course you can call your dog what you want.
 
  • #43
mal4mac said:
As I keep saying, "He's a right Charlie!" is an insult in the UK, it may have been transported to Turkey (we get, or got, everywhere :devil: )

I'm curious about the origin of the insult "He's a right Charlie" in the UK. Is this perhaps a reference to the execution of King Charles I during the English Civil War?
 
  • #44
Medicol said:
Solomon = Salmon :eek:
and
Michael = Mickey
Michelle = Mickey

Isn't the usual nickname in North America for Solomon is Sol?

According to a friend of mine from Israel, the common Hebrew version of Solomon is either Shlomo or Salomon. The Muslim version of the name is Suleyman (e.g. Ottoman Turkish Sultan Suleyman the Magnificent). Another common Jewish and Muslim version of the name is Salman (e.g. author Salman Rushdie).
 
  • #45
mal4mac said:
He's never called Prince Charlie! It's always Prince Charles. I'm speaking purely about the UK.

On the other hand, Prince Henry Charles Albert David, formally Prince Henry of Wales, is always called Prince Harry, or Captain Harry Wales when he served in the armed forces.

And Prince William is usually referred to as "Wills", which is a fairly typical UK public school (= USA private school!) style of nickname.

Some things can't be reduced to simple rules. And in any case, the monarchy can do whatever it likes, by definition!.
 
  • #46
mech-eng said:
English people and German people come from the same origin, I think English people are also German like Danish, Dutch, Norvegian and Swedish people. I think there must be a lot of people with German names in England in the past but they should have changed their names because of anti-German feelings. This supports my theory:Saxe-Coburg-Gotha was a name of a royal family in England at the beginning of 1900s but owners changed it to Windsor because of anti-German feelings and proves wars have changed people's name.

A lot of the original English stock is German in origin, and the invasions of the British Isles by the Danes and the Vikings added a lot of Scandinavian influence to the English as well. There are many English given names and surnames which are very similar, if not identical, to those of present-day Germans and Dutch.

However, because of the world wars, not everything which was German in origin was automatically jettisoned as a response to the war. True, the name of the ruling house in the UK was changed, but this was a symbolic gesture to show to the British people that although the royal family was German in origin, and the Kaiser himself was a first or second cousin to many in the royal family, the King and his family were first and foremost British.

Even today, we in the English-speaking world enjoy many foods and customs which are German in origin: we drink beer (pilsener, not that dark stuff), enjoy wursts and sausages and an occasional schnitzel, collect garden gnomes and beer steins, etc. That some things changed as a result of patriotic feelings at the time does not necessarily mean that they were rejected wholesale and forever. But we still can't mention the War (either of them, apparently, given that this is 2014.)
 
  • #47
SteamKing said:
A lot of the original English stock is German in origin, and the invasions of the British Isles by the Danes and the Vikings added a lot of Scandinavian influence to the English as well. There are many English given names and surnames which are very similar, if not identical, to those of present-day Germans and Dutch.

The English so the Americans and the Germans are very like from exterior. Most of them are blond, red or light brown in contrast with other European nations such as the Spanish and the Italians.
 
  • #48
mech-eng said:
The English so the Americans and the Germans are very like from exterior. Most of them are blond, red or light brown in contrast with other European nations such as the Spanish and the Italians.

You cannot and should not always judge everyone based on external appearance. It is at the very least impolite and rude.

As far as the fair-complected people living in the British Isles, many of them could have Celtic backgrounds, like the Scots and the Irish, and the Celts and Germans are not particularly closely related.

OTOH, not all Germans are blond and blue-eyed, and Hitler, despite all the blather about the Aryan ideal from the Nazis, had dark hair, although he did have blue eyes. In the entire Nazi hierarchy, it didn't seem that the blonde Nazis outnumbered the ones with dark hair.

It might surprise you that there are blonde Italians, primarily from the northern part of the country. There may be some blond Spaniards as well. Stereotypes are a disservice to clear thinking.
 
  • #49
mal4mac said:
He's never called Prince Charlie! It's always Prince Charles. I'm speaking purely about the UK.

He might not be called that in the circles you frequent, your majesty, but he has been called this rather informally a time or two in my recollection by Britons and in the British press. I bet even the Queen has dropped a 'Charlie' or two in private, and I bet Prince Phillip is almost certain to have used it.
 
  • #50
SteamKing said:
He might not be called that in the circles you frequent, your majesty, but he has been called this rather informally a time or two in my recollection by Britons and in the British press.

There's no contradiction here. Some of the British press (and the populace) do regard him as a bit of a "Charlie." A case of royal nominative determinism, perhaps.
 
  • #51
SteamKing said:
You cannot and should not always judge everyone based on external appearance. It is at the very least impolite and rude.
I don't see that he "judged" anyone. All he did was comment on external appearances, and he said as much.
 
  • #52
Oh yeah, something I will never forget was watching the 2008 inauguration of Barack Obama. I distinctly remember when Bill Clinton and George Bush accompanied him, on the television they announced the names ''William Jefferson Clinton'', ''George Walker Bush'', ''Barack H. Obama''.
Wow, really? Could they have been more obvious? Why not use all middle initials instead of having an odd man out and looking suspicious?
 
  • #53
AlephZero said:
On the other hand, Prince Henry Charles Albert David, formally Prince Henry of Wales, is always called Prince Harry, or Captain Harry Wales when he served in the armed forces.

I think 'Harry' was made de rigueur for royals by Shakespeare's, 'Cry God for Harry, England, and Saint George!' speech:

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/269700.html

And Prince William is usually referred to as "Wills", which is a fairly typical UK public school (= USA private school!) style of nickname.

I don't think it's all that usual, at least not in the UK, outside the gutter press. His Wikipedia page says 'Wills' was invented by the press. His Wikipedia page has 137 references and only one use of 'Wills', and that by a Scottish newspaper :)

In any case, since that marriage, Prince William became His Royal Highness The Duke of Cambridge and Miss Catherine Middleton became Her Royal Highness The Duchess of Cambridge. So the BBC, and serious press, now use the titles Duke & Duchess of Cambridge.

http://www.royal.gov.uk/LatestNewsandDiary/Pressreleases/2011/Announcementoftitles29April2011.aspx
 
  • #54
SteamKing said:
He might not be called that in the circles you frequent, your majesty, but he has been called this rather informally a time or two in my recollection by Britons and in the British press.

Well you can expect anything from the gutter press, and the hoi polloi.
 
  • #55
StatGuy2000 said:
I'm curious about the origin of the insult "He's a right Charlie" in the UK. Is this perhaps a reference to the execution of King Charles I during the English Civil War?

Don't know. Maybe it comes from Bonnie Prince Charlie, the defeated Scottish pretender? Or all those French kings called Charles? Maybe it's the collective badness of Kings called Charles?
 
  • #56
StatGuy2000 said:
Isn't the usual nickname in North America for Solomon is Sol?
.

It is in the Uk - as with Sol Campbell the famous football [US:soccer] player.
 
  • #57
It's still not clear where this animus against the name 'Charlie' originates. For all I know, based on the evidence presented so far, it might be because people don't like Charlie Watts, the one Rolling Stone who is not controversial or tinged with some scandal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Watts

or Lord Charles Beresford, who was a famous rival and antagonist of Adm. Jacky Fisher in the early 20th century:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Charles_Beresford

It certainly didn't prevent the Queen from naming her heir Charles.

It's true the Americans referred to the Viet Cong as 'Charlie' during the war, but that seems to have been a side-effect of using the NATO phonetic alphabet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viet_Cong

A hitherto secret society of Charles-haters surely must have been uncovered here :biggrin:
 
  • #58
mech-eng said:
When a family have two sons, can parents give Tony to one and Anthony to another and same question for
Michael and Mickey. Is Rickey same kind of situation of Michael to Mickey?

I guess there's no reason why not

Ricky (Rickey) is a common nickname/shortening for Richard

had a school mate, long ago, Richard he was always known as Ricky

I'm David, but the only ones who refer to me by that are professionals (say doctors etc) or my mother :wink:
And when she was really angry with me, it was David Andrew N... GET IN HERE! haha

everyone else knows me as Dave

cheers
Dave :wink:
 
  • #59
davenn said:
And when she was really angry with me, it was David Andrew N... GET IN HERE! haha

Nope. You do not want to get the full-name treatment from your parents.
 
  • #60
My mother never used our full names, she just raised her voice, if she raised her voice, you KNEW you were in trouble.
 

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