A question about the Urysohn metrization theorem

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the Urysohn metrization theorem, focusing on the concept of metrization of topological spaces through homeomorphic embeddings into metric spaces. Participants explore how a metric induces a topology on a space and clarify the relationship between metrics and topological properties.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that if a space X embeds homeomorphically into a metric space Y, then the topology on X is metrizable, with a metric defined on X derived from the metric on Y.
  • Others argue that the original topology on X induces the homeomorphism f and therefore the metric on the image of X, rather than the metric inducing the topology.
  • A participant questions whether the defined metric is an isometry, suggesting it preserves the shapes of open sets when mapped into X.
  • Another participant attempts to clarify the relationship between the metric d' on Y and the topology T on X, providing a reasoning process to show that the metric induces the topology.
  • Some participants emphasize that a homeomorphism maps open sets to open sets, establishing a bijective correspondence between the topologies of X and Y.
  • There is a reiteration of the definition of metrizability and the properties of homeomorphisms, with a focus on how open sets in X correspond to open sets in Y.
  • A later reply confirms the correctness of a participant's reasoning regarding the relationship between the metric and the topology.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and interpretation of the concepts involved, with some agreeing on the definitions and implications of metrization while others seek clarification on specific points. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the nuances of how the metric induces the topology.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note potential complications in the definitions and relationships between metrics and topologies, highlighting the need for careful consideration of the properties of homeomorphisms and the nature of open sets.

radou
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Here's just a conceptual question about this proof.

One can show a space is X metrizable by embedding it into a metric space, i.e. proving it is homeomorphic to a subset of a metric space (Y, d). The metric d induces the metric topology on Y, and a homeomorphism from X to Y (i.e. from Y to X) preserves open, closed sets, and other topological properties.

This may be a stupid question, but I don't directly see how this metric induces the given topology T on X.
 
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You're done on the first line: if X embeds homeomorphically into a metric space Y, then the topology on X is metrizable. You just define a metric d on X using the metric d' on Y by setting d(x,x') = d'(f(x),f(x')) where f is the homeomorphism. The work is in showing that f exists. In a sense, it's more like the original topology on X is inducing the map f and therefore the metric on the image of X, rather than the other way around.
 
Tinyboss said:
You're done on the first line: if X embeds homeomorphically into a metric space Y, then the topology on X is metrizable. You just define a metric d on X using the metric d' on Y by setting d(x,x') = d'(f(x),f(x')) where f is the homeomorphism. The work is in showing that f exists. In a sense, it's more like the original topology on X is inducing the map f and therefore the metric on the image of X, rather than the other way around.

Hm, I see.. Btw, the defined metric is an isometry, right? So in a way it preserves the "shapes" of the open sets in Y when mapped into X?
 
radou said:
Hm, I see.. Btw, the defined metric is an isometry, right? So in a way it preserves the "shapes" of the open sets in Y when mapped into X?

Pardon me, not the metric, but the function f.
 
OK, so, just to check if my reasoning is correct, I found an answer to my question in the first theorem on http://drexel28.wordpress.com/2010/03/10/thoughts-about-separation-urysohns-metrization-theorem/" page.

Now, regarding the "<==" direction and its ending "the conclusion follows":

We need to show that the metric d' induces the topology T on X. So, let U be an open set in T. Then f^-1(U) = V is some open set in (E, d), so it can be written as a union of open balls in E, i.e. V = U Bd(x, ε). But then f(V) = U = U f(Bd(x, ε)) = U Bd'(f(x), ε), and hence we have shown that any open set in X can be represented as a union of open balls in the metric d'. So, the metric d' induces the topology T.

Is this correct?

(Note: the notation isn't ideal, since U represents both the open set U and the union of sets, but I think it's clear enough what I'm referring to.)
 
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I think you are making it more complicated than you need to.

DEFINITION: A space is metrizable if it is homeomorphic to a metric space.

PROPOSITION: Any subset of a metric space is a metric space.

Proof: all properties of a metric space hold for arbitrary subsets

Right from this we have that:

X is metrizable <==> X is homeomorphic to a subset of a metric space.

Your question is: "How does the metric on the metric space induce a topology T on X?"

DEFINITION: A homoemorphism f: X -> Y is a bijective, bicontinuous map between topological spaces.

PROPOSITION: If f:X -> Y is a homeomorphism, and S is a topology on Y, then there is a unique topology T on X induced by S.

Proof: Again, it's obvious. A homeomorphism (and it's inverse) maps open sets to open sets (by definition!) Thus a subset U of X is in T if and only if f(U) is in S.

This leaves no room for error: the open sets in X are precisely defined by the homeomorphism f from the open sets in Y.

In fact, a homeomorphism is characterized by these two properties:
1) It is a bijection between the sets
2) It is a "bijection" between the topologies

In your case, the space Y is the subset of the metric space which X is homeomorphic to. We start with these two spaces:

(X,T)

and

(Y,d)

Where d is the metric topology (inherited from the metric space of which Y is a subset).

Once we have a homeomorphism f between them, we know that the "open" sets in X are in bijective correspondence with the "open" sets in Y. (i.e., if we know the open sets in one space, we know the open sets in the other).

In other words: once we have a homeomorphism between (X,T) and (Y,d), they are exactly the same topological space!
 
klackity, thanks for the reply.

You laid all this out pretty nice, but I'm still interested if what I wrote is true.
 
radou said:
Here's just a conceptual question about this proof.

One can show a space is X metrizable by embedding it into a metric space, i.e. proving it is homeomorphic to a subset of a metric space (Y, d). The metric d induces the metric topology on Y, and a homeomorphism from X to Y (i.e. from Y to X) preserves open, closed sets, and other topological properties.

This may be a stupid question, but I don't directly see how this metric induces the given topology T on X.

the metric defines the open sets by open balls of some radius. the open sets in any subset are unions of the intersections of these open balls with the subset.
 
radou said:
OK, so, just to check if my reasoning is correct, I found an answer to my question in the first theorem on http://drexel28.wordpress.com/2010/03/10/thoughts-about-separation-urysohns-metrization-theorem/" page.

Now, regarding the "<==" direction and its ending "the conclusion follows":

We need to show that the metric d' induces the topology T on X. So, let U be an open set in T. Then f^-1(U) = V is some open set in (E, d), so it can be written as a union of open balls in E, i.e. V = U Bd(x, ε). But then f(V) = U = U f(Bd(x, ε)) = U Bd'(f(x), ε), and hence we have shown that any open set in X can be represented as a union of open balls in the metric d'. So, the metric d' induces the topology T.

Is this correct?

Yes, this is correct!
In fancy language, you have just proven that "metrizability is inherited by subspaces"; This is quite important in metrizability theory... But you probably already noticed that :smile:
 
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