A rock, the earth, an ellipse and the joys of angular momentum

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a mechanics problem involving a rock orbiting the Earth, focusing on angular momentum and energy in the context of rotational motion and orbits. Participants explore the relationships between these quantities and their implications for orbital mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about deriving angular momentum L in terms of the rock's distance r and energy E, seeking clarification on how to progress beyond the basic definition of angular momentum as r x v.
  • Another participant provides a method to derive angular momentum by rearranging the energy equation to express velocity v and substituting it into the angular momentum formula.
  • A third participant introduces the Vis Viva equation and discusses kinetic and gravitational potential energy, leading to a formulation of total energy E and its relation to the semi-major axis a of the orbit.
  • This participant also derives an expression for angular momentum L, relating it to energy and gravitational parameters, and suggests that the problem's parts are interconnected, hinting at the nature of escape velocity.
  • A later reply indicates that the explanations provided have clarified the initial confusion experienced by the first participant.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally engage in a collaborative exploration of the problem, with some providing solutions and others seeking clarification. However, there is no explicit consensus on the final interpretation of the results or the implications of the derived formulas.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes various assumptions about the definitions of energy and angular momentum, as well as the conditions under which the equations are valid. Some steps in the derivations are not fully resolved, leaving room for further exploration.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students or individuals interested in mechanics, particularly those studying orbital dynamics and angular momentum in physics.

BigRedRod
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I understand that this is a bit cheeky but I've found a problem on one of my mechanics problem sheets that is giving me a headache. As much as I could just ignore it I'd rather try and gain some more understanding of the vague world of rotation and orbit

part 1 said:
A rock of mass m orbits Earth, mass M, radius R with angular momentum L and energy E. Argue directly, considering the direction of motion at its nearest point r to the Earth's centre, that L can written r*sqrt(2m(E + GMm/r))

Even at this early stage I'm bewildered and my searchings and own ponderings still leave me confused. If anyone can quite highlight how L can progress anywhere beyond the obvious r x v (where x is the cross product, and v is the tangental velocity of the rock at it's nearest point to Earth) I'd be forever in their debt

For fun, here is the rest which flows from this first section

part2 said:
Solve for r, and by interpretting the two solutions, deduce the relation e = -GMm/(Ellipse Length)

part3 said:
Suppose the rock is set off by being thrown from the North pole at such a (very fast) speed to have total Enegy E=0 in a direction of our choice.

part4 said:
Conclude (without further calculation) that the escpae velocity is independent of throwing direction


I'm not asking people to do the question for me (although feel free ;) ), any general direction would be pretty damn useful

Thanks in Advance
 
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To answer your first part, we have

angular momentum L = mvr

energy E = 1/2(mv^2) - GMm/r

rearrange energy equation until you have v = something...

substitute that into L = mvr for v

multiply m into the squareroot and that's your answer.
 
Start with the Vis Viva equation.

V^2 = GM (2/R - 1/a)

The kinetic energy is

K = (1/2) m V^2

K = (GMm/2)(2/R - 1/a)

The gravitational potential energy is

U = -GMm/R

The total energy is

E = K + U

E = (GMm/2)(2/R - 1/a) - GMm/R

E = GMm { (1/2)(2/R - 1/a) - 1/R }

E = -GMm/(2a)

Notice that the expression for the total orbital energy, just above, is the answer to Part 2 of your homework problem.

Solve for the semimajor axis.

a = -GMm/(2E)

The angular momentum L is

L = R x mV

The magnitude of which is

L = RmV sin Q

Where Q is the angle from R to V. Since at periapsis this angle is pi/2 radians, the angular momentum in your homework problem reduces to

L = RmV

Refer again to the Vis Viva equation.

L = Rm sqrt{ GM (2/R - 1/a) }

Substitute the expression for (a) found above.

L = Rm sqrt{ GM (2/R + 2E/GMm) }

Rearrange terms.

L = Rm sqrt{ 2EGM/GMm + 2GM/R }

Simplify.

L = Rm sqrt{ 2E/m + 2GM/R }

Move the orbiting object's mass inside radical.

L = R sqrt{ 2Em + 2GMm^2/R }

Factor out the m.

L = R sqrt{ 2m (E + Gm/R) }

It looks to me as if Part 3 and Part 4 are really one question, and it is a trick question. An orbit with total energy equal to zero is, by definition, barely unbound having exactly the escape speed for its geocentric distance.

Jerry Abbott
 
Last edited:
Ah, ta muchly guys. That clears everything up
 

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