A thought experiment (excuse me if I have wrong information, i'm new)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a thought experiment involving probability and quantum mechanics, specifically focusing on a modified double slit experiment where particles are observed in one of two identical rooms. Participants explore the implications of observation on probability and superposition, questioning whether it is possible to control randomness through observation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a scenario where decisions are made by probability, questioning if observing particles in a specific room allows for control over probability.
  • Another participant asserts that half the time a particle will be found in the right room, aligning with quantum mechanics predictions.
  • A later reply challenges the ability to explain why this is the case, suggesting it is simply how quantum mechanics operates.
  • One participant wonders if it is possible to willfully choose which outcome is observed, thus controlling randomness, while another states that current understanding suggests this is not possible.
  • Another participant clarifies that observation does not imply randomness, as the same room is opened every time, questioning the nature of control over observation.
  • One participant suggests replacing "until observed" with "until a select category of interaction happens," indicating a broader interpretation of observation beyond human interaction.
  • Another participant discusses the inherent randomness in the outcome of the coin landing in a room, emphasizing that there is only a 50% chance regardless of the method of selection.
  • One participant notes that a camera placed on one slit in a double-slit experiment will not always record the photon, indicating variability in observation outcomes.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of observation and control over probability, with no consensus reached on whether randomness can be controlled or the implications of observation in quantum mechanics.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding the mechanics of quantum observation and the role of randomness, with some assumptions about the nature of interaction and observation remaining unresolved.

tracefleeman
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So, let's think of a world where all the decisions are made by probability, e.g. flipping a coin, and quantum physics was never discovered.

Now, let's say they use a device, a contained version of the double slit experiment, except that the particles are supposed to land in one of two different "rooms" that are exactly the same - that won't happen, of course. They always open the right room, so that if the particle is there it won't be in the other room, and so on. Now, as we know, the particle will be in a superposition of states, in both rooms at the same time, until observed. But since the only open the right room, and therefore only observe the particle in the right room, so in this way can we directly control probability?

Again, sorry if my information is wrong. I'm new.
 
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tracefleeman said:
But since the only open the right room, and therefore only observe the particle in the right room, so in this way can we directly control probability?
Half the time you open the door to the right room, there will be a particle in it. The other half the time, there will be no particle. Just as probability and (QM) predicts.
 
DaveC426913 said:
Half the time you open the door to the right room, there will be a particle in it. The other half the time, there will be no particle. Just as probability and (QM) predicts.

Can you explain why though?
 
tracefleeman said:
Can you explain why though?

It can't be explained. It's just the way QM works.
 
I get it if you randomly observe it, but is it possible to willfully choose which one is observed, and therefore control randomness? Or should I stop typing half asleep?
 
According to our current understanding of the universe, no. You cannot willfully control the probability of measuring a certain outcome
 
tracefleeman said:
I get it if you randomly observe it, but is it possible to willfully choose which one is observed, and therefore control randomness? Or should I stop typing half asleep?

No one "randomly observed it". You looked in the right room every time. You can't control what you observe or don't observe when you look.
 
I didn't mean if you randomly open either room, I was talking about opening it at a random time.
I some what understand now.
 
tracefleeman said:
Now, as we know, the particle will be in a superposition of states, in both rooms at the same time, until observed.

replace "until observed" with "until a select category of interaction happens"

it does not have to be any (human/live/life) observation.
 
  • #10
tracefleeman said:
I didn't mean if you randomly open either room, I was talking about opening it at a random time.
I some what understand now.

the coin will not always land up in the room you happen/choose to open.

there is only a 50% chance that the coin will land up in the room you choose to open, no matter how random the action (of picking one of the rooms is)

we are not pre-determined to choose the "right/correct/coin" door...

so in a double-slit experiment, if you put a camera on one slit...the camera will not always record the passage of the photon through that slit, it will record it only 50% of the time (...it might be lower due to environment/em noise)
 

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