A123 Systems files for bankruptcy

[mheslep]

President Bush and Dave Vieau,
CEO of A123 Systems, with a
Hymotion-converted Prius,
Friday, Feb. 23, 2007,
on the South Lawn of the White House. (ref)

My brain just froze.
Bye.

It is one thing for politicians to take glad handing pictures with business people and another to write them checks with taxpayer money. Obama/Pelosi gave A123 a $249 million grant via DoE, and had a tentative loan about to start for over a billion. Gov. Granholm in Michigan gave another $125 million in tax credits. How much did Bush give to A123?

 

[SunnyBoyNY]

It is one thing for politicians to take glad handing pictures with business people and another to write them checks with taxpayer money. Obama/Pelosi gave A123 a $249 million grant via DoE, and had a tentative loan about to start for over a billion. Gov. Granholm in Michigan gave another $125 million in tax credits. How much did Bush give to A123?

Didn't Bush also spend around two trillion dollars on an absolutely useless war in Iraq? We are talking peanuts here, bickering over a few hundred million dollars that were mostly spent here in the US and fueled our economy.

Tax credits are a boost for a start-up company (I work for one) but are generally not refundable. Thus, the local taxpayer does not feel the difference.

 

[OmCheeto]

Not as much as you might think.

a blog? really?

and the rest? tldr

unsubscribe

 

[rootX]

I'm not sure you read it correctly. It appears to me to be saying that if the demand of the grid is too low and all of your power is coming from wind or hydro, you have to turn off either the wind power or the hydro power. Since both of these are fuel free, it doesn't matter which you turn off, but with hydro you have the added complexity of trying to avoid collapsing your dam.

That said, I suppose it also means our grid isn't integrated enough to allow the power to be shared with people further away. Or perhaps it is just an economic thing: there are times when an overabundance of power will cause the price to go negative, leading to the odd problem of having to pay people to take your electricity.

One thing that can combat this problem is changing energy usage patterns to flatten the load profile. Now that the price of electricity changes throughout the day, such technologies as ice and cold water storage are becoming more viable.

More integrated grid means building more transmission lines which is next to impossible. It's expensive (http://www.powermag.com/POWERnews/4854.html) and politically challenging (http://www.forbes.com/sites/ericagies/2011/07/25/new-transmission-lines-coming-to-an-area-near-you/).

However, the US seems to be going on right track:

An old saw would have it that new transmission cannot be built in the United States. That preconception is outdated. Last October, the Obama administration announced it was expediting and accelerating the permitting and construction of seven new major tranmission lines criss-crossing twelve states, as Energy Central's TransmissionHub reported on Dec. 20, 2011.

http://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise...icity-pricing-complicates-smart-gird-buildout

 

[aquitaine]

a blog? really?

and the rest? tldr

unsubscribe

Is this the best reply you have to all of that?


Believe it or not, I get it. I used to buy into all this nonsense too. Until I started to look into the fundamentals on my own. Then I realized how damaging and ultimately unhelpful these prescriptions really are, not just to the environment but to our civilization. This kind of intellectual bankruptcy doesn't do anyone any good, especially the tax payer.

 

[mheslep]

Tax credits are a boost for a start-up company (I work for one) but are generally not refundable. Thus, the local taxpayer does not feel the difference.

A tax credit is dollar for dollar reduction in revenue, which some other business or person then has to make up later, often through increased taxes. A123 received grants from the fed.

 

[SunnyBoyNY]

A tax credit is dollar for dollar reduction in revenue, which some other business or person then has to make up later, often through increased taxes. A123 received grants from the fed.

A123 received money from the fed, certainly. Why would local governments have to make up revenue lost due to tax breaks on new companies when there had been no income from such an entity prior to the tax break?

Say I open a pizza place on my street. I pay the electric bill, thrash pickup. Taxes on desolate offices have been minimal. The local government does not necessarily see a hike in its expenditures that would justify the dollar for dollar argument.

 

[OmCheeto]

However, the US seems to be going on right track:
http://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise...icity-pricing-complicates-smart-gird-buildout

/me resubscribes.

pats puppy on the head, and says; "Good dog".

/me re-unsubscribes


-----------------------------
"means to an end" has some nasty connotations. But if the "means" is simply taking your first step in the morning with your left foot, rather than your right foot, then, it's pretty much meaningless.

 

[mheslep]

A123 received money from the fed, certainly. Why would local governments have to make up revenue lost due to tax breaks on new companies when there had been no income from such an entity prior to the tax break?

Either the firm made money and would have paid taxes or it did not. If the firm made no money then it received no tax credit. Either the tax credit had value or it did not.

Say I open a pizza place on my street. I pay the electric bill, thrash pickup. Taxes on desolate offices have been minimal. The local government does not necessarily see a hike in its expenditures that would justify the dollar for dollar argument.

These are not city property taxes but state business income taxes in the Michigan case - have to be for the term 'credit' to apply.

 

[Jones64]

hmm missed that news apparently. Sad it went down, the products they made were actually quite good in comparison to other lifepo batteries.