About a bee flying inside a moving train

In summary, the bee will not need to continuously flap its wings to maintain the same position while flying inside a moving train. There will be a difference in perception depending on the frame of reference, but the bee's motion will remain the same inside the train. If the train accelerates, the bee may need to expend energy to maintain its position, depending on the direction and magnitude of the acceleration. However, its motion will still be relative to the air it is flying through, not the train itself.
  • #1
I have some questions which i can't seem to answer and understand. Here goes:
Imagine a bee flying inside a moving train moving at a constant velocity in one particular direction. the bee is flying in mid-air and is not in contact with any of the train parts.

qns 1: does the bee need to continously flap its wings(so to speak) to fly forward in other to maintain in the same position?

qns 2: is there any difference when the frame of references are one inside the train and one outside the train.

qns 3: what will happen if the train accelerates? i feel that in this case, the bee will have to exhaust energy to fly forward in order to maintain in the same position but i am not sure and doesn't know to explain it.

thanks a million for helping me out with this question.
 
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  • #2
qns 1: does the bee need to continously flap its wings(so to speak) to fly forward in other to maintain in the same position?

No the bee doesn't need to flap its wings to fly forward to maintain the same position.

qns 2: is there any difference when the frame of references are one inside the train and one outside the train.

Yes ofcourse there is...the person viewing from outside thinks that the bee is moving...whereas the person inside the train thinks the bee is stationary
 
  • #3
everything inside the train is going the same speed as the train, even the bee.. You don't feel the air from inside the train blowing in your face in the train, it is also moving.. In the same way the bee is also moving even though it hasn't contact with any solid materials...

so like anantchowdhary said: the bee doesn't need to flap its wings to fly forward to maintain the same position.
 
  • #4
anantchowdhary said:
Yes ofcourse there is...the person viewing from outside thinks that the bee is moving...whereas the person inside the train thinks the bee is stationary

I think the second question is asking if there is a difference not in the point of view but in the force needed to keep the bee moving when you see it from outside the train. Seen from inside the train, the bee is stationary. Seen from the outside, it has a uniform linear motion. In neither case do you need to apply a force to keep it that way.
 
  • #5
Oh, and for question 3, if the speed of the train ceases to match the speed of the bee then the bee will appear to be accelerating in the opposite direction when seen from the inside. It can counter this apparent acceleration by applying a force (using its wings). Seen from the outside, the bee will need to accelerate to match the train speed by applying that same force.
 
  • #6
just so long as we all agree that the bee better be flapping something to stay aloft! :wink:
 
  • #7
Anantchowdhary and Maxwellsdemon don't seem to think that! Perhaps they could explain what is going to keep the bee aloft.
 
  • #8
hehe...i think the question was as follows:
qns 1: does the bee need to continously flap its wings(so to speak) to fly forward in other to maintain in the same position?

...so i really think its about linear motion...Therefore i gave my answer
 
  • #9
I agree with all of you. I guess I was just bad at telling you in the right way :)
 
  • #10
Maxwells Demon said:
I agree with all of you. I guess I was just bad at telling you in the right way :)

Could u pls elaborate??are we correct or not??
 
  • #11
I was just trying to add a little "levity" If it were an ant, non-flying variety, no problem.

If you'll forgive an aside, reminds me of the balloon in a car collision problem that came up recently--suppose a helium balloon is tied to the gearshift of your souped up sport input which due to your inattention, hits a brick wall at 60MPH, in which direction does the balloon first travel?
 
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  • #12
we are correct
 
  • #13
'About a Bee' - isn't that a Hugh Grant Movie?
 
  • #14
denverdoc said:
suppose a helium balloon is tied to the gearshift of your souped up sport input which due to your inattention, hits a brick wall at 60MPH, in which direction does the balloon first travel?

Opposite to the pendulum that was suspended above it. Actually, both would continue in the original direction of the car except that, being tied to a string, the balloon would also accelerate downward and the pendulum would accelerate upward. Did I get it?
 
  • #15
The key to understanding this question is to recognize that the bee interacts directly with (and thus all its motion is referenced to ) the volume of air in the train - and deos not intreract with the train itself or the outsdie world. Ask first what effect the train's movement has on the air. Once you know that, ignore the train and ask what the bee does wrt the air it is flying through.
 
  • #16
out of whack said:
Opposite to the pendulum that was suspended above it. Actually, both would continue in the original direction of the car except that, being tied to a string, the balloon would also accelerate downward and the pendulum would accelerate upward. Did I get it?
No. The key to understanding balloon behaviour is to understand the behaviour of the air around it.

The sum total of the mass - and thus interia - in the balloon and all its helium is LESS than the sum total of the same volume of air that the balloon is displacing. So the air in the car continues forward with greater enthusiasm (read: inertia) than the helium balloon. Thus, balloon strains backward upon impact.

Another way to understand it is to think of a helium ballonn as - not an object - but as a small bubble of low vacuum in the air. It's the air that acts, not the bubble of vacuum.
 
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  • #17
DaveC426913 said:
So the air in the car continues forward with greater enthusiasm (read: inertia) than the helium balloon. Thus, balloon strains backward upon impact.

Ah, got me. Nice one!
 
  • #18
Suppose we perform the experiment in vacuum...if there was some way to keep the bee aloft...Would the bee then also stay in the same position even if the train moves??
 
  • #19
Nope. no reason i can think of.
 
  • #21
thanks a million for the numerous replies, i finally begin to understand it and i even learned a new concept with the balloon in the car:biggrin:

and...also sorry for the inconvenience caused by posting it in the wrong section intially and has it to be moved to the correct section
 
  • #22
what if the speed of the train is close to speed of light ?
 
  • #23
I think If such a thing happens, the train will not exist. The mass of the train will be transformed to energy (that is wave particle duality). Am I right?
 
  • #24
nop...how d u think the mass will transformed into energy??
 
  • #25
Ahmed Abdullah said:
I think If such a thing happens, the train will not exist. The mass of the train will be transformed to energy (that is wave particle duality). Am I right?

The moving mass will be different from the rest mass but that's not the matter of concern...
I was asking pertaining to relativistic terms, specially the frames of reference, both inside and out of the train
 
  • #26
if the speed of the train is close to that of light...then the bee would be going back but you would observe it in slow motion..
 
  • #27
Almost right, there is certainly time dilation present, but unfortunately the benefits accrue to the occupants of this silver bullet. The twin paradox where the sedentary twin sends his space cadet bro off at near light speed grows old and dies between his twins need to shave. This is a good thing as it is the only known possible rescue from our ever knowing the universe w/o wormholes or greater than C velocities.
 
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1. How does a bee fly inside a moving train?

A bee is able to fly inside a moving train because it has the ability to adapt to changing motion and navigate through the air using its wings.

2. Is it common for bees to fly inside moving trains?

No, it is not common for bees to fly inside moving trains. Bees are typically found outside, in open spaces where they can easily navigate and find flowers to pollinate.

3. Why do bees sometimes fly inside trains?

Bees might fly inside trains if they are attracted to sources of light or if they are disoriented. They may also fly inside due to the wind created by the train's movement.

4. Can a bee survive flying inside a moving train?

Yes, a bee can survive flying inside a moving train. Bees are resilient and able to withstand the wind and motion inside the train. However, it is best to safely remove the bee from the train to avoid any potential harm.

5. What should I do if I find a bee flying inside a moving train?

If you find a bee flying inside a moving train, it is best to safely capture it and release it outside when the train has stopped. This will ensure the bee's safety and prevent any potential disruptions on the train.

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