About career path to Phd, Professor

[ParticleGrl]

But maybe I see it this way as I'm a bachelors without much in the way of job prospects right now, wishing I had got into grad school.

The good news is that with a bachelors you can apply to pretty much any intro level position, with a phd you'd be much more limited.

 

[Lavabug]

The good news is that with a bachelors you can apply to pretty much any intro level position, with a phd you'd be much more limited.

I guess that's a positive way of looking at it (I wouldn't be looking for intro positions if I had a phd anyway), but if you remember my situation in my thread, this isn't a good deal for me either. The amount of people posting here in recent years posting about difficulties getting jobs with just a physics BS of any kind corroborates this.

I find myself unqualified for the vast majority of intro jobs I find because I'm not an engineer or CS graduate, yet tantalizingly underqualified for many physics-y type jobs in the optics or similar industry or meteorological agencies because I don't have a phd or masters+several years of relevant experience. I don't think I can make an honest case why an entry-level employer should take me over a CS or engineer in most of the jobs I've applied to (some programming, optics, biotech, chemical and glass manufacturing to name some. Some internships/temps, others indefinite). With just a BS I'm obviously not going to impress a financial or consulting firm with the skills you or twofish and the like have developed during your phds.

In the ones I could more easily make the case, they required education beyond a BS and in many cases a phd and to add insult to injury, I have no real contacts that could get me hired in industry outside of a sibling which is already doing what he can.

What you argue for definitely holds, but if and only if the BS holder meets certain criteria: he/she has contacts that will get him/her hired or if he/she has usable job skills beyond the standard physics curriculum. Some of us don't have much choice in our courses or get intern/coop positions before graduating.

 

[ParticleGrl]

What you argue for definitely holds, but if and only if the BS holder meets certain criteria: he/she has contacts that will get him/her hired or if he/she has usable job skills beyond the standard physics curriculum.

You should look at business type positions and other things outside of STEM. Many business related positions require just a decent knowledge of microsoft office type products and some basic quantitative skills.

You going to have a hard time out-competing engineers for STEM jobs even with a phd, so try for non-STEM.

 

[StatGuy2000]

You should look at business type positions and other things outside of STEM. Many business related positions require just a decent knowledge of microsoft office type products and some basic quantitative skills.

You going to have a hard time out-competing engineers for STEM jobs even with a phd, so try for non-STEM.

I'm not certain whether someone with a physics BS alone will be competitive in business type positions in comparison with those who have, say, degrees in math or economics or even any social science degree or business degree, since either of these majors will likely have the same decent knowledge of Microsoft Office type products and basic quantitative skills (although many people I know who have business degrees lack even the most basic of quantitative skills).

 

[Lavabug]

I'm not certain whether someone with a physics BS alone will be competitive in business type positions in comparison with those who have, say, degrees in math or economics or even any social science degree or business degree, since either of these majors will likely have the same decent knowledge of Microsoft Office type products and basic quantitative skills (although many people I know who have business degrees lack even the most basic of quantitative skills).

I also don't think I have the personality type, I'm about as far from assertive or outspoken as you could imagine. While workplace people skills might not be something that is learned in a degree, there's certainly a selection bias in business/econ degrees for people with those knacks for prolific speaking and jargon. They would kill me in an interview. I don't think most of my physics cohort would fare any better either, we are quiet nerds. :)

 

[Locrian]

I also don't think I have the personality type, I'm about as far from assertive or outspoken as you could imagine. While workplace people skills might not be something that is learned in a degree, there's certainly a selection bias in business/econ degrees for people with those knacks for prolific speaking and jargon. They would kill me in an interview. I don't think most of my physics cohort would fare any better either, we are quiet nerds. :)

The content of this post doesn’t accurately reflect the business environment I operate in (or am aware of in similar departments elsewhere), and I disagree strongly with your statement that there is selection bias towards “prolific speaking and jargon”.

Are you really sure you know what personality type various busines departments may be looking for?

 

[Lavabug]

I have a sibling who works in sales and I've met some of his coworkers and friends in other sales positions, so I'm going based solely on them and their opinions.

 

[Locrian]

Nobody here is suggesting you go into sales.

The culture is entirely different in marketing departments and, say, finance departments (my dept is a subset of finance).

 

[Naty1]

I'm not certain whether someone with a physics BS alone will be competitive in business type positions in comparison with those who have, say, degrees in math or economics or even any social science degree or business degree, since either of these majors will likely have the same decent knowledge of Microsoft Office type products and basic quantitative skills (although many people I know who have business degrees lack even the most basic of quantitative skills).

A physics BS indicates a person knows how to think.
If you are applying for a general position in any firm you should fare well compared with social science, math, etc, degrees. Business people are supposed to solve problems. Working alone can be a path, often more quantative positions, but collaborative efforts are increasingly important where multi discipline groups from different organizations solve common problems. Business does favor people who can think on their feet, express themselves in such a way that others understand and are drawn to a common goal and purpose in such a way as to avoid antagonizing peers.
Introverts are more likely to have difficulties functioning effectively in large organizations. Sheldon Cooper [the tv character in BIG BANG THEORY] is probably NOT a good candidate for a business position...

 

[Vanadium 50]

(although many people I know who have business degrees lack even the most basic of quantitative skills).

An important point.

 

[Lavabug]

Nobody here is suggesting you go into sales.

The culture is entirely different in marketing departments and, say, finance departments (my dept is a subset of finance).

Well we're talking about generic jobs that fall under "business", isn't sales one of them? I'm not savvy enough to distinguish the sub disciplines or types of responsibilities there are, I've never held a white collar job in a company.

 

[StatGuy2000]

A physics BS indicates a person knows how to think.
If you are applying for a general position in any firm you should fare well compared with social science, math, etc, degrees. Business people are supposed to solve problems. Working alone can be a path, often more quantative positions, but collaborative efforts are increasingly important where multi discipline groups from different organizations solve common problems. Business does favor people who can think on their feet, express themselves in such a way that others understand and are drawn to a common goal and purpose in such a way as to avoid antagonizing peers.
...

True, a physics BS does indicate that the individual in question knows how to think, but the same could be said of any science BS, including a math BS. People with math degrees or other science degrees, or even social science degrees, have (or should have) the same quantitative skills, problem-solving skills, and ability to think on their feet as someone with a physics degree.

Therefore, I'm not convinced that possessing a physics BS alone -- please note the bold highlight -- would make the individual more competitive in business-type positions. Now the situation would be different if an individual combines a physics BS with another practical degree program, say CS, business, or engineering, or someone who pursues an unusual combination in their undergraduate degree (e.g. a combined BA/BS in physics and humanities/social science). Someone who pursues a physics BS and then completes a graduate degree in another field (e.g. MS or PhD in engineering, CS, statistics; an MBA after a BS in physics) may also be more competitive in non-academic jobs.