Absolute zero and non particle movement

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of absolute zero (0 Kelvin) and the implications of particle movement at this temperature. Participants explore theoretical and conceptual aspects, including the relationship between particle motion, thermodynamics, and quantum mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the implications of reaching absolute zero, questioning whether particles can truly stop moving and how this relates to Einstein's views on constant movement.
  • Another participant corrects the first, attributing the concept of uncertainty in particle movement to Heisenberg rather than Einstein, and asserts that absolute zero cannot be achieved.
  • A participant seeks verification on the achievability of absolute zero, indicating a belief that it may be a paradox if it were possible.
  • It is noted that experimental evidence supports the idea that absolute zero cannot be reached, with some participants referencing classical thermodynamics as a basis for this claim.
  • Discussion includes the assertion that classical thermodynamics defines absolute zero independently of particle motion, and that quantum mechanics introduces the idea of residual kinetic energy even at the lowest energy states.
  • One participant mentions that the definition of absolute zero was historically linked to entropy rather than particle motion, suggesting a broader conceptual framework.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that absolute zero cannot be reached, but there are competing views on the implications of this for particle movement and the definitions involved. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the interpretation of these concepts.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions about definitions of absolute zero, the relationship between classical and quantum physics, and the implications of the uncertainty principle on particle motion.

Vals509
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i have read in some articles that when 0 Kelvin is achieved then particle movement within the cooled substance ceases. but my doubt is that einstein said that all objects have constant movement. this means that if the particles really stop then they will kind of stop in time because it is longer moving through space time. this i believe is not possible but am not sure of a reason. i think it may have to do with the frame of reference but cannot find a direct solution. can someone tell me a way to solve this paradox.
 
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No Einstein did not say that. That is basically the "uncertainty priciple" due to Werner Heisenberg, not Einstein. Einstein isn't the only scientist to have deep thoughts! And you are correct that means it is impossible to reach absolute zero. I don't know what "paradox" you mean. I see no paradox here.
 
i thought that the paradox was in effect, if we thought that absolute zero is achievable. can anyone verify that 0 K is achievable or not?
 
It has been experimentally verified that you cannot reach within some fraction of a degree of absolute 0, yes.
 
It's not possible to reach absolute zero; classical thermodynamics prohibits it. (and quantum physics doesn't change this)

Classically, particles are not moving at absolute zero, and quantum physics did change that: due to the uncertainty principle, things do have some kinetic energy even at their lowest achievable energy state.

This has no effect on the concept or reality of absolute zero though, because it was not originally defined in terms of the motion of particles. Indeed, it was introduced by Clausius (IIRC) around 1850-ish, long before the 'atomic theory of matter' had been commonly accepted among physicists. Rather, the definition of 'absolute zero' came about through the much more general concept of entropy - as entropy is linear with absolute temperature (barring phase changes), you can extrapolate back to the temperature where S = 0, which is absolute zero.

So as long as classical thermodynamics holds, you will have an absolute zero regardless of whether or not the particles are actually motionless and regardless of whether matter is even composed of particles.
 

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