Abstract math prove involwing sets

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a problem in abstract mathematics involving sets, specifically focusing on the union of sets defined by points on the boundary of squares in the Cartesian plane. The original poster is tasked with expressing a set S, defined as the union of these boundary sets Ts, in a different form and proving the equivalence to another set J.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to define set J in terms of specific points and segments but expresses uncertainty about how to represent set S differently and prove the equality. Some participants suggest explaining the points contained in the union of Ts or identifying points not included. Others provide hints regarding symmetry and the relationship between points in different quadrants.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants exploring various interpretations of the problem. Hints have been provided to guide the original poster in considering the implications of symmetry and the definition of positive real numbers. There is no explicit consensus yet, as participants are still questioning assumptions and clarifying definitions.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the problem specifies s as a positive real number, which excludes the possibility of a square with zero side length. This constraint is acknowledged in the discussion.

beatka6
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Homework Statement


Let Ts denote the set of points in the x; y plane lying on the square whose
vertices are (-s; s), (s; s), (s;-s), (-s;-s), but not interior to the square. For
example, T1 consists of the vertices (-1; 1), (1; 1), (1;-1), (-1;-1) and the
four line segments joining them. Let
S = union of Ts, where s is an element of positive real numbers
Determine a set J, that is not de ned in terms of unions, that equals S. Prove
that S and J are equal.
Please help. I have no idea how to start that problem. What I figure out is that J=AuBuCuD, where set A={ (x,y)| (x,y)=(s,y), for -s≤y≤s} B={(x,y)| (x,y)=(-s,y), for -s≤y≤s}, C={(x,y)| (x,y)=(x,s), for -s≤x≤s}, D={(x,y)| (x,y)=(x,-s), for -s≤x≤s}
I do not know how to write down set S in different form and how to prove that J=S

Homework Equations





The Attempt at a Solution

 
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Try explaining in words what points of the plane are contained in \cup T_s. Alternatively, it might be easier to identify what points are NOT contained in the union.
 
here are a couple of hints:

suppose (x,y) lies on some square Ts. if (x,y) is in the 4th quadrant, then (x,-y) is in the 1st quadrant, on the same square Ts. if (x,y) is in the 3rd quadrant, then
(-x,-y) is on the same square in the first quadrant, if (x,y) is in the 2nd quadrant, then (-x,y) is in the 1st quadrant.

so you may as well just consider (x,y) in the first quadrant, from symmetry considerations.

now show that if x = y, (x,y) is the corner of some square (which one?), if x > y, (x,y) is on the right vertical side of some square (again: which one, that is...what is s?), and if y < x, then (x,y) is on the top edge of some square (and s is...?).

of course, not every point of the plane is in a quadrant. some points lie on the x-axis, and some points lie on the y-axis. consider these points separately.

last hint: is a square with sides of length 0 allowed?
 
So in my set s cannot equal -s. Would that take care of the problem with 0 side length? But in that problem it does not say that it can't but it says that s is a positive real number, so 0 it is not included because 0 is not negative nor positive.
 
Last edited:
you are correct that 0 is not a positive real number.
 

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