Acceleration in elliptical orbits ?

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    Acceleration Orbits
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on calculating acceleration in elliptical orbits, specifically between aphelion and perihelion. Participants explore various equations and methods for determining acceleration based on known parameters such as velocity and gravitational force.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asks how to calculate acceleration between aphelion and perihelion and which equations are applicable.
  • Another participant suggests that the calculation depends on known information, indicating that acceleration is perpendicular to velocity and its magnitude is determined by gravitational force at a given distance.
  • A participant provides specific values for Earth's aphelion and perihelion distances and suggests a speed at aphelion, requesting an explanation of how to calculate acceleration towards perihelion based on these data.
  • A later reply corrects a previous statement about gravitational force and provides a detailed mathematical framework involving the Kepler problem, including equations for distance, angular momentum, and energy, while emphasizing the need for specific parameters such as mass and velocity.
  • Participants discuss the conservation of angular momentum and the radial equation of motion, presenting complex relationships between acceleration in different directions and their dependence on variables like distance and angle.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on a single method for calculating acceleration, as multiple approaches and equations are proposed, leading to a discussion that remains unresolved with competing views.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes various assumptions and dependencies on specific parameters, such as mass and distance, which are not universally agreed upon. There are also unresolved mathematical steps in the derivations presented.

Bjarne
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How is acceleration between aphelion and perihelion calculated?
Which equation can be used?
 
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That depends on what information is already known. For instance, if the velocity is known at a point then the acceleration will be perpendicular to it (in the direction of the body being orbited) with a magnitude given by the (magnitude of the) force due to gravity at the distance of the point from the body being orbited.
 
IsometricPion said:
That depends on what information is already known.

For instance, if the velocity is known at a point then the acceleration will be perpendicular to it (in the direction of the body being orbited) with a magnitude given by the (magnitude of the) force due to gravity at the distance of the point from the body being orbited.

Let us say the Earth
Aphelion; 152,052,232 km
Perihelion 147,098,290
Speed let us just say speed at Aphelion = 30 km/s ( I don’t know where to find anything else as a average.)
Acceleration Due to Gravity (Aphelion)
GM/r^2 = 6.67e-11*2e30/152098232000^2 = 0.005766436287721685 m/s^2

Can you based on these data explain / show the equation how to calculate the acceleration towards perihelion?
 
IsometricPion said:
(in the direction of the body being orbited) with a magnitude given by the (magnitude of the) force due to gravity at the distance of the point from the body being orbited.
Sorry, this part of my previous post is inaccurate.

The wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kepler_problem" on the Kepler problem gives the distance between the two bodies in terms of the angle of line connecting them (wrt the x-axis):[tex]r=\frac{-L^2}{km[1+e\cos(\theta{}-\theta_{o})]}[/tex] where k=Gm1m2, m=m1m2/(m1+m2), [tex]e=\sqrt{1+\frac{2EL^2}{k^{2}m}}[/tex], E is the total energy of the system, L is its total angular momentum, and [tex]\theta_{o}[/tex] is the initial angle.

By definition of the center of mass frame (in which this problem is usually analysed), m1r1=m2r2 and [tex]\theta_{1}=\theta_{2}+\pi{}\Rightarrow{}\dot{\theta_1}=\dot{\theta_2}\Rightarrow{}m_{1}v_{1}=m_{2}v_{2}[/tex] so if the subscript 2 denotes the properties of Earth in this coordinate system, (using the data from this http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/planetfact.html" for G) one needs to know the mass of each object, the velocity of one of the objects and their separation at given time. Using the values for the Earth and Sun found on the linked site, and the distance and velocity of the Earth at aphelion (rounding to 5 places): m1=1.9891e30 kg, m2=5.9736E24 kg, aphelion= 1.5210E11 m, min. orbital velocity (aphelion velocity)=29290 m/s. L=[tex]mr^{2}\dot{\theta}[/tex]=2.6612E40, [tex]E=\frac{1}{2}[m\dot{r}^{2}+mr^{2}\dot{\theta}^{2}]-\frac{Gm_{1}m_{2}}{r}[/tex]=-2.6516E33 J, k=7.9304E44 kg*m3/s2, m=5.9736E24 kg, e=1.7103E-2. Therefore, [tex]r=\frac{1.4950\mathsf{x}10^{11}}{1+0.017103\cos(\theta)}[/tex] in meters, having taken θo to be zero (i.e., x-axis aligned with Sun-Earth line at aphelion). Since total angular momentum is conserved, [tex]\dot{\theta}=\frac{L}{mr^2}\Rightarrow{}\ddot{\theta}=\frac{-2L\dot{r}}{mr^3}[/tex] and from radial equation of motion, [tex]\ddot{r}=\frac{L^2}{m^{2}r^3}-\frac{Gm_{1}m_{2}}{mr^2}[/tex] which are the magnitudes of the acceleration in the θ and r-directions, respectively. So, the magnitude of the acceleration in each direction can be written solely as a function of r or θ. A little more work will similarly give the magnitude and direction of the acceleration vector in whatever coordinate system one chooses.
 
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