How does the perihelion passage affect the orbital period of comet Neowise?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the orbital characteristics of comet Neowise, particularly focusing on the interpretation of its orbit diagram and the implications of its perihelion passage on its orbital period. Participants explore both the visual representation of the comet's path and the physical processes affecting its orbit, including the effects of gas and dust emissions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the orbit diagram shows Neowise's motion over one Earth year, with the "7 day motion" indicating the separation between points displayed.
  • Another participant proposes that the diagram represents the comet's path across the sky, with positions marked weekly, influenced by Earth's orbital motion.
  • A later reply clarifies that comets do not follow simple Keplerian orbits due to the effects of gas and dust emissions, particularly during perihelion passage, which can significantly alter orbital elements.
  • One participant notes that the perihelion passage is expected to increase Neowise's orbital period from about 4500 years to about 6800 years, seeking an explanation for this change.
  • Another participant emphasizes that the tight spirals in the diagram can be misleading, as they may suggest proximity to the comet, while the larger loop indicates the period of greatest angular velocity and least distance from Earth.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the interpretation of the orbit diagram as a representation of the comet's position from Earth's perspective, but there is no consensus on the specific mechanisms by which the perihelion passage affects the orbital period, and multiple views on the nature of cometary orbits are presented.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of cometary motion and the influence of non-gravitational forces, such as gas and dust emissions, on orbital dynamics. There are unresolved aspects regarding the exact relationship between perihelion passage and changes in orbital period.

Buzz Bloom
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TL;DR
The diagram of Neowise's orbit in the cited Wikipedia article seems very odd.
The orbit diagram
in the Wikipedia article
shows some very odd spirals.

My first guess is the picture shows what Neowise does in one Earth year (mostly 2020) as the Earth completes it's orbit. The caption says, "7 day motion", apparently referring to the separation between orbital points displayed. Another possible interpretation is that the diagram represents one complete Neowise orbit, and each loop of the sprial represents what happens to Neowise in different Earth years from Earth's perspective. That is, the loop in the sky gets smaller as Neowise moves further away, and vice versa. The point where the two spiral cones touch corresponds to the aphelion.

If my guess is wrong, can someone please explain what is happening regarding these spirals in Neowise's orbit?.

The following is a quote from the article.
This perihelion passage will increase the comet's orbital period from about 4500 years to about 6800 years.​
Can someone explain how the perihelion passage causes this change in orbital period?
 
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Buzz Bloom said:
The diagram of Neowise's orbit in the cited Wikipedia article seems very odd.

That's because it's not an orbit.
 
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It looks like it's the comet's path across the sky, with its position marked weekly. I expect you'll find 52 positions marked per loop of the spiral, because we are observing from the Earth and you are seeing the parallax from our orbital motion superimposed on the comet's own orbital motion.
 
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Buzz Bloom said:
Summary:: The diagram of Neowise's orbit in the cited Wikipedia article seems very odd.

The orbit diagram
in the Wikipedia article
shows some very odd spirals.

My first guess is the picture shows what Neowise does in one Earth year (mostly 2020) as the Earth completes it's orbit. The caption says, "7 day motion", apparently referring to the separation between orbital points displayed. Another possible interpretation is that the diagram represents one complete Neowise orbit, and each loop of the sprial represents what happens to Neowise in different Earth years from Earth's perspective. That is, the loop in the sky gets smaller as Neowise moves further away, and vice versa. The point where the two spiral cones touch corresponds to the aphelion.

If my guess is wrong, can someone please explain what is happening regarding these spirals in Neowise's orbit?.

The following is a quote from the article.
This perihelion passage will increase the comet's orbital period from about 4500 years to about 6800 years.​
Can someone explain how the perihelion passage causes this change in orbital period?

I think you've gotten the answer to your first question, which is that this is a plot of the position of the comet on the sky of the Earth, with the points being 7 days apart. You're right in that each loop of the spiral is one Earth year.

On your second question, comets don't follow simple Keplerian orbits. They are spewing out streams of gas and dust, and these streams act like rocket engines and change the comet's orbit. This effect is especially pronounced as the comet passes perihelion, where it gets the most solar heating and spews out the most evaporating gases. So the orbital elements after perihelion passage can be significantly different than before perihelion passage. In extreme cases, the comet simply boils away during perihelion passage and nothing is left but a cloud of dust.
 
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The confusing thing is that the tight spirals can be wrongly thought of as what happens when the comet is nearest. In fact, its the single large loop that shows the parallax around the time its orbital angular velocity is greatest and it distance from us is least. Then the gassing adds another factor.
I always take my hat off to astronomers who find that sort of thing second nature - after a lot of experience and hard work, no doubt.
 
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