Acceleration & Mass relationship

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between acceleration, mass, and the implications of traveling at the speed of light, particularly in the context of special relativity. Participants explore theoretical scenarios involving spacecraft and the concept of singularities, questioning the nature of mass and speed in relativistic physics.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Athena questions whether a hypothetical spacecraft traveling at the speed of light would become a singularity, both for its occupants and the universe.
  • Some participants assert that spacecraft cannot travel at the speed of light and that massive objects do not become black holes when approaching this speed.
  • Nikki expresses a desire to understand why a hypothetical positive mass object traveling at the speed of light would not become a singularity, indicating a potential misunderstanding of relativistic mass.
  • Another participant argues that discussing what happens to a massive object at light speed is meaningless, as physics does not address impossible scenarios.
  • A link is provided to a resource discussing the implications of massive objects traveling at light speed, emphasizing that such discussions are more science fiction than science.
  • One participant elaborates on the impossibility of attaining the speed of light, explaining that no reference frames exist where an object with mass exceeds this speed, and that this is fundamentally about geometry rather than mass.
  • It is noted that if a spacecraft were to become a singularity at some speed, it would imply the existence of an absolute rest frame, which contradicts the principles of relativity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally disagree on the implications of a massive object traveling at the speed of light, with some asserting that such scenarios are impossible and others exploring the theoretical consequences of such a situation.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in addressing hypothetical scenarios that defy established physical laws, particularly regarding the speed of light and the nature of mass in relativistic contexts.

AthenaM
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Apologies in advance if this question is either stupid or has been asked frequently. I have googled and googled but cannot find a answer.

Special relativity says that when a body accelerates its mass increases and its length decreases. This continues until the body approaches the speed of light, once there its mass has become infinite and its length has become zero.

So then, if a hypothetical spacecraft was traveling at the speed of light would it not become a singularity? If so, would this just be a singularity for the occupants of the spacecraft or for the whole Universe?

If not, would somebody be able to explain why not or direct me to a resource for further reading.

Many thanks
Athena
 
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Spacecraft cannot travel at the speed of light. Spacecraft traveling at nearly c do not become black holes either.

YOU are currently traveling at nearly c in some reference frames, and yet you are not a singularity.
 
ZikZak said:
Spacecraft cannot travel at the speed of light. Spacecraft traveling at nearly c do not become black holes either.
Yes, I'm fully aware that spacecraft , or for that matter, anything with positive mass cannot travel at anything like c. It's why I used the word "hypothetical" I also have a reasonable understanding of the reasons why not too!

I would be very interested to learn the reasons why a hypothetical positive mass object traveling at c would not become a singularity. Perhaps I am missing something obvious here or misunderstanding what relativistic mass is all about. However at the moment the logic behind this question eludes me.

Many thanks
Nikki
 
Using the word "hypothetical" doesn't allow you to describe what would happen in an impossible situation. Hypothetically or not, it's meaningless to talk about a massive object traveling at the speed of light. Physics has nothing to say on the matter, except that it couldn't happen.
 
AthenaM said:
Yes, I'm fully aware that spacecraft , or for that matter, anything with positive mass cannot travel at anything like c. It's why I used the word "hypothetical" I also have a reasonable understanding of the reasons why not too!

You are asking a theory which postulates that the speed of light is c in all reference frames what would happen in a frame in which the speed of light is not c. Obviously, you cannot get any answer, "hypothetical" or otherwise.

And actually, I suspect that you may be a bit fuzzy on why c cannot be attained (not your fault), since your teachers apparently abused you with the semi-Newtonian kludge of Relativistic Mass. c cannot be attained because the speed of light is c in all reference frames, and no matter how fast you travel, light flashes continue to pass you at c. Since you can never speed up enough to catch a light ray, no one can observe you ever to do so, and therefore there are no reference frames in which your speed is or exceeds c. It really has nothing to do with mass.

You sitting in your chair are going at nearly c in some reference frames. There aren't any reference frames in which your speed, sitting in your chair, exceeds c. Those frames don't exist, even in principle. Since those frames don't exist to begin with, no amount of acceleration will get you into one of them. Accelerate all you like for as long as you like, and you will pass through inertial frame after inertial frame, constantly, forever, none of which exceed c in any other frame. It's about geometry, not mass.

In any case, the question cannot be answered for a spacecraft traveling at c, since there is no such thing. For a spacecraft at nearly c, the answer is simply the principle of Relativity: that there is no experiment that can be performed aboard the spacecraft that depends upon its speed alone. If the spacecraft turns into a black hole or a singularity at some speed, then there would be a possible experiment on board ship ("am I in a black hole or not") that would reveal that speed, implying the existence of an absolute rest frame against which all motion could be measured, and that cannot happen. Since you are not a singularity now, you will never be a singularity simply on account of changing your speed.
 
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