Acid, Base, and Le'Chatelier's Principle

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the color changes observed in a chemical reaction involving ammonium ions, hydroxide ions, and the addition of various chemicals, particularly AgNO3. Participants explore the implications of these changes in relation to acid-base chemistry and Le'Chatelier's Principle, focusing on the effects of different ions on pH and equilibrium.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes an experiment where the addition of AgNO3 resulted in a color change from clear pink to foggy pink, questioning the role of NO3- in this change.
  • Another participant argues that NO3- is too weak a base to affect the pH of the solution significantly.
  • A participant recounts the sequence of additions (NH4Cl, NaOH, HCl, AgNO3) and expresses confusion about the final color change, suggesting that the previous acidic condition affected the alkalinity.
  • One participant proposes that the observed color change could be due to various competing reactions, including ammonia protonation and Ag+ complexation, but notes that none would substantially increase pH.
  • A later reply suggests that the fogginess could be due to phenolphthalein being absorbed on the AgCl surface, though this is not well-documented.
  • Another participant questions the logic behind the assertion that AgOH precipitation would shift the equilibrium towards the reactants, invoking Le'Chatelier's Principle.
  • One participant defends their reasoning by stating that removing OH- would shift the equilibrium to favor the reactants, thus supporting their application of Le'Chatelier's Principle.
  • A request for clarity on the specific reactions and equilibrium involved is made, indicating that the reasoning presented is too vague to assess accurately.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the role of NO3- and the effects of AgOH precipitation on pH and equilibrium. There is no consensus on the explanation for the observed color change or the implications of Le'Chatelier's Principle in this context.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention various competing reactions and the need for precise definitions and equations to clarify the discussion. There are unresolved aspects regarding the effects of different ions on the solution's pH and the resulting color changes.

IBY
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I recently did an experiment with the following reaction:
[tex]NH_4^+ + OH^-[/tex]<-->[tex]NH_3+H_2O[/tex]
I added phenolphthlein, which is magenta in the presence of base.

Now, I have to explain, after adding certain chemicals why I have certain color. The one color change I am having trouble explaining, though, is adding [tex]AgNO_3[/tex].
From a clear transparent pink, it went to a foggy pink. The fogginess is due to the Ag precipitate. But it is the pink I am having trouble explaining, since [tex]NO_3^-[/tex] is not a component of the reaction above.

The way I explained it is that [tex]NO_3^-[/tex] is a conjugate base of [tex]HNO_3[/tex], so there is a basic substance added, and this turns the phth slightly pinkish.

The question is, is my answer right, or is there something more to it?
 
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No, NO3- is too weak a base to be able to change solution pH.

However, I don't understand what you don't understand - solution was alkaline before (pink) and after adding AgNO3 its pH has not changed. Why do you need additional base to keep the solution alkaline?

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What happened previously is that the solution is clear, meaning it is not basic enough to affect the phth because I have added HCl before that.

Now, the point of the experiment is to see how the color changes, and then explain why it changed that way.

So, here is how I did things. I added NH4Cl, which turned clear.

Then, I added NaOh, which turned magenta.

Then I added HCl, which turned clear again.

Finally, I added AgNO3, which turned the solution pinkish.

I have already explained why for all the first three reactions. But I don't know how to explain the last reaction, the AgNO3 one. As you said, [tex]NO_3^-[/tex] is too weak to change the basicness of the solution. So how did it turn more basic, then?
 
No idea what have happened. There are several competing reactions possible - ammonia protonation, Ag+ complexation, AgCl & AgOH precipitation - but none of them could substantially increase pH.

Could be change in color can be effect of phenolphthaleine being absorbed on the AgCl surface - please read final paragraphs of this page - but I don't remember reading about php reacting this way.

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methods
 
It couldn't even have made the shade even light pink? Oh well.

By the way, if AgOH is precipitated, then doesn't that shift the equilibrium towards the reactant, to the side of the magenta which is [tex]NH_4^+ +OH^-[/tex], according to Le'Chatelier's Principle?
 
Can't say I understand your logic. If anything AgOH precipitation removes OH- from the solution, lowering pH.

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Yeah, but there is an equilibrium in the reaction, which means there is an equilibrium constant. That means that when OH- is removed, the reaction will move to match the equilibrium constant. This means that removing a certain quantity of a component moves the reaction towards the part where the component is. This also means that once equilibrium is reached, there is less of the stuff on the other side of the equation. Again, I invoked Le'Chatelier's principle.
 
Please write precisely which reaction, which equation, what equilibrium and what components. At the moment it is not possible to follow your thinking - you are wrong at some point, but your description is so vague that it is impossible to pinpoint the problem down.

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