Action-at-a-distance in Sideways EPR-Bell?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around Huw Price's recent paper, "New Slant on the EPR-Bell Experiment," which explores the implications of action-at-a-distance (AAD) in the context of the EPR-Bell experiment and its variations, particularly the "Sideways EPR-Bell" scenario. Participants engage with concepts of causality, correlations, and the philosophical underpinnings of quantum mechanics, as well as the implications of these ideas for understanding time and separability in quantum theory.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that the paper argues for the necessity of defending AAD in both the EPR-Bell and Sideways EPR-Bell scenarios due to the symmetry considerations involved.
  • There is a suggestion that using AAD to explain time-like correlations with a single photon is seen as unreasonable by some participants.
  • One participant expresses disappointment over the lack of discussion regarding the paper, emphasizing its accessibility and the interesting arguments it presents about AAD.
  • Another participant critiques Price's approach, questioning the justification of using backwards causation to avoid AAD and non-separability, arguing that it leads to a complex ontology without empirical justification.
  • Some participants highlight the paper's presentation of three options regarding the interpretation of quantum mechanics: Instrumentalism, Retrocausal realism, and rejecting the symmetries, noting that the paper does not advocate for any specific option.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of different interpretations of quantum mechanics, with some preferring retrocausal realism over other approaches.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the implications of Price's paper, with no consensus reached on the validity of AAD or the interpretations of quantum mechanics presented. Disagreement exists regarding the merits of backwards causation and the philosophical implications of the proposed interpretations.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note that the discussion involves complex philosophical and technical arguments that may not be fully resolved, and there are references to empirical justifications that remain unaddressed.

  • #91
RUTA, I’m still digesting your https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=3048084&postcount=80". There’s a lot going around in my head, including Swedish hotdogs... :smile: But there will be a lengthy reply, ASAP.

I will just chime in with some "good news" and some maybe "less good news", for RBW.

EDIT: Forget 1 I was wrong, dBB do not satisfy Leggett’s assumptions. :redface:

[STRIKE]1) Check out https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=459148". It looks like a new test of Leggett's inequality (computer-controlled holograms), is pointing towards a non-local + non-separable world! Must be good for RBW, right?[/STRIKE]

2) I found this (one year old) 'news' from http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/GLAST/news/first_year.html" indicating that the old man was right - experimental evidence showing that spacetime is smooth as Einstein predicted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=<object width="640" height="385">
<param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/1mkKhn53L68&fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0&amp;color1=0x402061&amp;color2=0x9461ca">
</param>
<param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param>
<param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param>
<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/1mkKhn53L68&fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0&amp;color1=0x402061&amp;color2=0x9461ca" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed>
</object>

Does this have any 'implications' on the Euclidean simplices in RBW?
 
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  • #92
DevilsAvocado said:
I found this (one year old) 'news' from http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/GLAST/news/first_year.html" indicating that the old man was right - experimental evidence showing that spacetime is smooth as Einstein predicted:
Does this have any 'implications' on the Euclidean simplices in RBW?

This result is consistent with what I would expect from our "nonseparable simplices." There's no reason to expect a difference in the computation of light speed when the relations between sources are always direct (no scattering). The conclusion given in the video assumes the dynamical perspective, i.e., there are massless particles moving through space between an emission event and a reception event. Of course, that assumption does not hold in RBW. We would say the computation of the "speed" is simply a ratio of space to time between events, i.e., there is no "thing" with a worldline connecting those events. One would expect an invariant speed to arise in a formalism where space, time and sources are being co-defined.
 
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  • #93
ThomasT said:
I'm pretty sure that my worldview is quite naive, especially wrt, say, RUTA's. That's one reason why I'm so amenable to changing it.

And I am aware that my worldview is likely wrong, so I'm amenable to changing it as well :smile:

ThomasT said:
Well, expanding, evolving, contextual, and relative seems to me to rule out nondynamical blockworld and retrocausal views.

We don't contend the dynamical perspective is "wrong" at the classical level. On the contrary, our fundamental rule (self-consistency criterion) for building graphs is chosen precisely so that dynamical classical physics with its divergence-free stress-energy tensor follows necessarily as a statistical limit of the discrete, adynamical and relational fundamental level.

ThomasT said:
Ok, we seem to differ on the latter part of this. I don't think that SR and QM, properly understood, have caused any erosion to concepts of matter, time, space, simultaneity, causality, and determinism.

Most, at this point, believe quite the contrary. But, without the answer, who knows?
 
  • #94
DevilsAvocado said:
RBW = Superdeterminism = No free will ...?
I often find that people reject determinism, because it rules out free will.
But what makes you think that free will exists anyway, even if the world is not deterministic?
As a concept, free will is emotionally attractive, but totally incoherent.
 

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