Adjusting Parameters for Identifying Features of an Action Potential

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding a suitable mathematical formula to accurately represent the shape of an action potential curve. Participants explore various mathematical models and functions to graph this curve, with a focus on achieving a high level of precision for specific voltage values. The context includes theoretical and practical applications, particularly in visualizing the action potential for educational purposes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests using a sine function but expresses uncertainty about achieving the precise shape of the action potential curve.
  • Another participant notes that the action potential may not correspond to any standard closed-form equation and questions the desired accuracy.
  • A different participant proposes that the difference of two exponentials could approximate the curve, mentioning the use of a Crystal Ball function and the sine function as potential models.
  • Some participants discuss the possibility of approximating the curve using a combination of a normal distribution and a piecewise continuous function, with parameters that are yet to be determined.
  • One participant emphasizes the need for a more precise solution and describes specific voltage values that must be captured in the model, including resting potential, action potential peak, and hyperpolarization.
  • Another participant suggests that more complex functions may yield better approximations, indicating that adding parameters can help tailor the formula to the specific shape of the curve.
  • There is mention of the Hodgkin-Huxley model, which describes the action potential through a second-order ordinary differential equation, noting that it lacks a closed-form solution but can be solved numerically.
  • Some participants discuss the limitations of using Desmos for this task and suggest alternative approaches, including creating a web page for parameter variation and numerical integration.
  • Concerns are raised about the complexity of fitting polynomials to the curve, with a participant warning that overly complex models may not generalize well outside the approximated range.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the best approach to model the action potential, with no consensus reached on a single formula or method. There is acknowledgment of the need for precision, but differing opinions on the complexity and type of functions to use remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in their mathematical backgrounds and the challenges of achieving the desired precision in modeling the action potential. The discussion also touches on the need for specific voltage values and the potential for numerical solutions to the Hodgkin-Huxley model.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying neurobiology, mathematical modeling, or anyone involved in educational projects related to visualizing biological processes.

  • #31
William Crawford said:
The action potential satisfy a 2nd order ODE according to the Hodgkin-Huxley model. See equation (30) of their seminal paper [1]. This equation has no closed form solution, but can be solved numerically.
View attachment 287111

View attachment 287110

[1]. HODGKIN AL, HUXLEY AF. A quantitative description of membrane current and its application to conduction and excitation in nerve. J Physiol. 1952;117(4):500-544. doi:10.1113/jphysiol.1952.sp004764
Thank you, William. That's very useful.
 
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  • #32
Thank you p
pbuk said:
Just to recap on this thread:
  1. We want to create a frequency modulated audio output following a given curve for presentation to learners with a visual impairment.
  2. The given curve is generated by a system of (4) differential equations (ODEs) without an analytical solution.
  3. The Desmos website is capable of providing audio output, but it cannot solve differential equations.
One way of overcoming this is to find a (probably piecewise) approximation to the curve and input this into Desmos.

I think a better way is to create an application that can numerically solve ODEs, plot the results and produce an audio output. I have put something together to demonstrate this and it is available at https://avplot.com/#/hodgkin-huxley: an image of the graphical output is shown below. If this is useful, let me know and I will make it a bit smarter and add more functionality as time allows (e.g. the ability to enter arbitrary equations similar to Desmos, change the audio parameters etc). If it is not then it will probably die when the domain renewal comes up, although the (open) source will be available at https://github.com/avplot for as long as GitHub works.

View attachment 288064
This is excellent, thank you pbuk! Is it still possible to add the functionalities you mention in your post?
 
  • #33
TULC said:
This is excellent, thank you pbuk! Is it still possible to add the functionalities you mention in your post?
Yes in theory: in practice I have very little free time at the moment. What would be the most desireable feature?
 
  • #34
pairofstrings said:
To build a formula for a curve - no matter how intricate the curve is - I can always create a formula by adding parameters?
How to add parameters?

Thanks.
Maybe something like Lagrange interpolation. Edit: But then this is likely overfitting, if you want a general model.
I was thinking the curve looked like one of the periods of the Topologist's Sine Curve: f(x)=Sin(1/x); f(0)=0.
 
Last edited:
  • #35
I understand and appreciate any input. You suggested a couple of things in a previous post including (1) enabling users to enter arbitrary equations similar to Desmos, and (2) changing audio parameters...Both of these suggestions are great, though I would like to learn more. Which audio parameters could we actually adjust in this application?
Regarding this particular sonification: It could be useful to adjust the function such that the users can more easily identify specific features of an action potential. Specifically, it would be helpful to make the undershoot following the fall of the curve a bit more pronounced, e.g., by increasing its amplitude. It would be good to experiment with that particular feature of the curve. Currently, without any visual input, I would not be able to identify that there is an undershoot following the fall of the curve.
 
  • #36
TULC said:
You suggested a couple of things in a previous post including (1) enabling users to enter arbitrary equations similar to Desmos
Yes, this could be implemented using the excellent expression parser in math.js.

TULC said:
(2) changing audio parameters...Both of these suggestions are great, though I would like to learn more. Which audio parameters could we actually adjust in this application?
Well the code has these default settings (see https://github.com/avplot/avplot.gi...0bed551481c708dcb9e10/src/avplot/avplot.js#L9)
JavaScript:
const defaults = {
  animationDuration: 5000,
  highlightPointRadius: 6,

  maxGain: 0.25,
  valueScale: 1,
  valueOffset: 0,
  // const baseFreq = 440; // A5.
  // const baseFreq = 523.23; // C5.
  baseFrequency: 880, // A6.
  octaveScale: 2,
  octaveOffset: 0,
};
, you can see where I have experimented with different base frequencies for instance. All it needs is a user interface to adjust these (and it would be even easier to build these into a URL e.g. https://avplot.com/#/hodgkin-huxley/settings=baseFreq:440,octaveScale:2 (note this is not implemented and shows a blank screen at the moment).

TULC said:
Regarding this particular sonification: It could be useful to adjust the function such that the users can more easily identify specific features of an action potential. Specifically, it would be helpful to make the undershoot following the fall of the curve a bit more pronounced, e.g., by increasing its amplitude. It would be good to experiment with that particular feature of the curve. Currently, without any visual input, I would not be able to identify that there is an undershoot following the fall of the curve.
Parameters could be introduced to expand the freqency range for e.g. the lower part of the curve which would highlight the detail in this case.
 
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