Advice on How to Make a Move with a Friend

[humanino]

It makes very much sens to guys at least

 

[Zeteg]

I've been pondering on the reasons why girls usually don't approach guys first. Here's what I think: when a man sees a beautiful woman, he knows he wants her because she's hot. In other words, for guys, its a female's body that's the main cause of attraction. On the other hand, it's a man's personality that's the main attraction factor for women. So just by looking at a guy, unless he's Stanley Kowalski-sexy, they don't feel a strong attraction. Now these are the biological reasons and based only on looks. Add to that the social reason, i.e. the fact that it's socially expected of men to approach girls and not the other way around.

Girls, is this accurate reasoning? Do you sometimes feel like approaching a guy but don't do it because of your social programming and just sit there desperately hoping he'll make a move?

I don't believe that's the reason at all. It still stands that our society is patriarchial (If I spelt it right). With this, comes the fact that the males are more dominant, to speak. However hard we try and erase this subject, in the end, it comes out in some way. This, is one of those ways. Because males are the sexual dominance, they must initiate the move. In a subconscious way of speaking, the females don't posses the 'dominance' to initiate the first move. This isn't true always, however. I'm not sexist, I'm just offering my suggestion of why things might be the way they are.

 

[Evo]

Women still feel it is the man's place to initiate things, but often the woman gives the man the signals that she wants him to initiate something.

I see more and more women starting to make the first move since men don't always pick up on the signals we send.

When I go out, if I want to let a man know I am interested, I smile at him then look away, them look back and smile again. This never fails. Sometimes it works too well and I have had more than one guy think I was smiling at them and had both rush over to me at the same time.

 

[Zeteg]

Lol...

You're talking about bar-type situations however, right Evo? I mean, you can't possibly expect a guy to acknowledge that you like them by smiling, if you've known them.

I think it's great females are starting to initiate things, 'cause I don't believe it's that we don't catch on to the signals, but rather we're afraid of the outcomes, and possibilities.

 

[Moonbear]

Most recent thing...

I asked her out to go to club with me and she said she'd love to but when we got there and start dancing. She kept on looking somewhere else, but at me. And i know i am a good dancer she comented her self so it wasn't like i was embarrasing her. She just didn't look interested. But as we were getting out of the club and going back to our apartment we had this huge ass conversations.

Then comes next day of hangover from clubbing since i drink and she doesn't i felt like **** the whole next day. After the whole day goes by she never calls me... and monday morning i give her a call to walk to class with her. And mah life is same... so much confusion and agitation... And yes i am 19 and i have dated before but this girl is just too much of a tease... and so complex.

Okay, here's the post-game analysis:
1) clubs are LOUD, impossible to have a conversation
2) she's still as shy about you as you are about her, so it got awkward to look right at you (she wasn't smiling at other men, was she? That would be a whole different problem...better check the instant replay.)
3) you were drinking enough to get hungover and she wasn't...which means you might have been acting a bit stupid, worse, nervous and stupid. Big turn-off.
4) you were supposed to call her the next day! She was probably thinking you gave her the brush-off. We women don't call men, men call us, and we sit by the phone all day waiting, and then you don't call, and we don't know why, and we think you must hate us now, and and and...
5) she still walked with you to class the next day, so she'll still talk to you and isn't completely scared off...there's still hope yet!

Okay, now it's time to romance her socks off so she doesn't stand a chance of resisting, and so it's totally clear your intentions...

The next invitation is to a quiet restaurant where you can talk. Pick something you can afford, but not fast-food...make sure the place has tablecloths at least, or has some other nice atmosphere (candles on the table, dim lighting, that sort of thing). Now, does she have a favorite color? If you're not sure, see if you can find a girlfriend of hers who will give you the inside scoop! When you pick her up, bring her one rose in that color (you can get white roses dyed pretty much any color you want). If you're totally in doubt about this, then get a white or pink rose...red is for after you both fall madly in love with one another. Remember to plan enough advance time before you're supposed to be at the restaurant to have her hunt around for a vase or glass of water or something to put the rose in...she won't want to carry it all night and she'll get mad if you try rushing her before she can put it into water. If she just tosses the rose onto the nearest table or chair, you may have a problem.

When you go out to the car, hold her door for her and the door at the restaurant. Hold her chair. Do all those gentlemanly things you never do otherwise. If she says something like, "you don't have to do that." Just answer simply, "I want to."

At this point, she'll be melting like butter. Be forewarned, though, you may be on the hook for keeping up this sort of behavior once she gets a taste of it. Nonetheless, no woman can resist the romantic gentleman!

Oh, and at the end of the night, don't forget to KISS HER! Ask politely, "May I have a kiss goodnight?" Take note of the signals here. This is the real test. If she agrees (may be just a tiny nod), just go for a light kiss on the lips, but if she turns her head to the side, don't force it, just a peck on the cheek will do (it's not a good sign if she turns her head to the side...if that happens, you then have permission to go out drinking with your buddies for the rest of the night). And, CALL HER the next day. Even if it seems it might not have gone well, just give it that one last chance. If all the signs were there of a good date, tell her how much you enjoyed the evening with her, and that you'd like to do it again sometime. See if she agrees to that statement or even suggests a day or place.

You can then let nature take its course from there.

Good luck!

 

[Jin314159]

I've been pondering on the reasons why girls usually don't approach guys first. Here's what I think: when a man sees a beautiful woman, he knows he wants her because she's hot. In other words, for guys, its a female's body that's the main cause of attraction. On the other hand, it's a man's personality that's the main attraction factor for women. So just by looking at a guy, unless he's Stanley Kowalski-sexy, they don't feel a strong attraction. Now these are the biological reasons and based only on looks. Add to that the social reason, i.e. the fact that it's socially expected of men to approach girls and not the other way around.

Girls, is this accurate reasoning? Do you sometimes feel like approaching a guy but don't do it because of your social programming and just sit there desperately hoping he'll make a move?

I disagree. Girls are just as if not more shallow than guys.

 

[quasar987]

I disagree. Girls are just as if not more shallow than guys.

I checked dictionary.com but none of their definition seem to match your use of the word shallow. Except maybe this one

1. Measuring little from bottom to top or surface; lacking physical depth.

Anyway, what do you mean? That they are as interested in looks as guys are?


Btw Zeteg, your dominance theory is interesting. There is certainly some truth to it.


Moonbear, have you lived that scenario yet or has it been marinating in your head since you were 6 years old?

 

[Moonbear]

Moonbear, have you lived that scenario yet or has it been marinating in your head since you were 6 years old?

LOL! [Nostalgic mood]Oh, I've lived it, except it was 3 white roses, one for each day he'd known me before our first date, and white because that was the color dress I was wearing the first time he saw me. I think I fell in love instantly. He's my great one that got away.[/nostalgic mood]

But, I agree with you to some extent qasar. I can't speak for all women, but at least for me, I don't notice men for their looks, I get hooked on how they act and what they say, so if they don't sit down next to me and start talking, I don't know if they have any brain in that head of theirs.

I've learned that as much as men say they wish women would ask them out more to take off the pressure, when women do ask men out, it seems to bruise their male egos. So, instead we all but club you over the head with hints that we want you to ask us out.

On the other hand, good relationships sometimes just happen. Neither person does the asking, you just sense that there's an attraction pulling you together and somehow just wind up dating and nobody remembers how it started.

 

[Moonbear]

Sometimes it backfires. Last night I was drunk with the girl I liked and I told her that I liked her and she said that she had never thought of me like that, cos I have always been, well, me. Some compliment huh?

Sorry to hear that jimmy. I don't want to hold out false hope, but maybe it will put the bug in her head to get her thinking of you as the "liking" sort. Then again, I can sympathize with that one. I used to have a great knack for being the "little sister" or "one of the guys." The most crushing moment was way back in high school. I had this HUGE crush on one of my guy friends. So, one day he sort of pulls me out of the crowd in the hallway and wants to ask me something, and I thought he was about to ask me out, and instead, he winds up telling me, "I really like W and want to ask her out, what do you think I should say?" Well, I paraphrased a bit, but you get the point. He never saw me as anything more than a sister. I eventually got over it.

 

[jimmy p]

Sorry to hear that jimmy. I don't want to hold out false hope, but maybe it will put the bug in her head to get her thinking of you as the "liking" sort. Then again, I can sympathize with that one. I used to have a great knack for being the "little sister" or "one of the guys." The most crushing moment was way back in high school. I had this HUGE crush on one of my guy friends. So, one day he sort of pulls me out of the crowd in the hallway and wants to ask me something, and I thought he was about to ask me out, and instead, he winds up telling me, "I really like W and want to ask her out, what do you think I should say?" Well, I paraphrased a bit, but you get the point. He never saw me as anything more than a sister. I eventually got over it.

Lol. That is the story of my love life. :laughing:

 

[desibrij_1785]

Thanks moonbear... your advice worked... i did exactly what u said... i even got the goodnight kiss... if you have any further advice... let me know

 

[desibrij_1785]

This chat session was very helpful and fun... All you people who tried to help me thank u very much. If you ever need **** email me at bpatel48@uiuc.edu

 

[Moonbear]

Thanks moonbear... your advice worked... i did exactly what u said... i even got the goodnight kiss... if you have any further advice... let me know

Woo hoo! See, us women can never resist that sort of date So glad to hear it went well!

Can I get a medal for relationship expert too? I'm really good at helping other people out, just can't get my own right

 

[Zeteg]

Hmm, I actually need a bit of help, pertaining to girls at the current moment. It's not that I want her, but rather make sure that she's okay. What happened was that she used to go out with a guy 3 years older than her, and she's 15 right now. Anyway, the guy is a moron who can't put together a proper sentence, much less pass school. He got her to steal a few times, drink and smoke like crazy. She broke up with him 'cause he moved with his family, but he just moved back. One of the people she trusts the most is the best friend of her ex. He's not exactly the best influence either.

I only met her about a month ago, so she doesn't exactly trust me opinions and advice too much.

My question is... what would be the best way to destroy her trust in her friend, and make her hate her ex? I realize that I should interfere with people's lives, but I guess some people need to be turned into the proper direction, before they can make their own choices to a full extent. Any help please? =)

 

[amwbonfire]

My question is... what would be the best way to destroy her trust in her friend, and make her hate her ex? I realize that I should interfere with people's lives, but I guess some people need to be turned into the proper direction, before they can make their own choices to a full extent. Any help please? =)

I don't think you should interfere. If you try, she'll end up hating you, and that will only make her trust her ex and friend even more.

Hopefully she'll work it out on her own.

 

[Moonbear]

Zeteg, amwbonfire is, unfortunately, right. Interferring in that way will only make her resent you for trying to break them up. She's either going to have to come around on her own or learn the hard way what she's gotten herself into with that guy. The best thing you can do is to just be there. When someone is that bad of an influence, often the person dating them starts to get isolated because their other friends just won't hang out with them anymore with that less than desirable company. The more isolated they get, the harder for them to get out. So, just be there if she needs someone to talk to. Let her confide in you, even if it's hard to listen to. As she gets more comfortable telling you stuff, you can then start to drop small comments that it doesn't sound like a good situation, you're worried about her with all the smoking, isn't she worried she'll get caught stealing and wind up in jail? Never say anything about the guy convincing her to do this, she needs to decide to get rid of him herself. And don't barrage her with all those comments at once, just one here and there in conversation. You don't want her to get defensive, just let them slowly sink in. Then offer that you're there for her. You can back it up with something concrete, like if she wants to quit smoking, you'll help her get through the withdrawal part, you don't mind if she gets irritable, she can vent on you, or you'll take her out to get lots of gum to chew or whatever will help. This way, she'll learn she can trust you to help her out on things that are more minor, and hopefully will feel comfortable talking to you when she outgrows the boyfriend. But, if this is just the direction she wants her life to go, you may not be able to do anything for her. It's tough to watch.

 

[Zeteg]

It's just so hard to let go, and let them make their decisions... I've known two others that have ended up depressed and near suicidal, and this incident is almost an exact reincarnation of previous ones.

Oh, and when I said smoke, I didn't really mean cigs. She used to smoke marijuana when she was with him. After they broke up, she stopped apparently. I'm afraid she'll go back in, if they get back together.

I can't put to words... how I'm feeling at the moment. It's like I'm at the brink of sanity... just at that point where you're holding yourself back from snapping.

If you really think that just being there will help... then I guess that's what I'll do. I haven't thought of anything better to do, that won't make her hate me. It's pretty silly how people can make such bad decisions and not realize it... How close would you suggest I stay?

 

[Moonbear]

Does she also know the two people who wound up near suicidal? If so, maybe that could help this situation. You could talk to her about them, maybe help her see she's headed down the same path.

Do her parents know about this boyfriend and what she does with him? Do they care? They might be better able to intervene if they are informed what's going on. Or maybe you could talk to a school counselor and get advice of how to help her and encourage her to help herself? I'm much better at the matchmaking stuff than with the teenagers being influenced by the wrong crowd.

One thing that might be worth asking is what does she see in him? Maybe start out with something like she is such a pretty and smart girl, that you wonder why she dates someone who does drugs and asks her to steal. Don't harp on it, just ask somewhat offhandedly. Then just sit quietly and see if she gives you an answer. Who knows, maybe this guy has some redeeming qualities you don't see, or maybe there's something else going on in her life that draws her to this guy, or maybe she'll just say she doesn't know. Just give her honest compliments when you can. She may have a self-esteem problem and just needs to hear good things from someone else to help her see her value.

And, honestly, it might be good if you go talk to someone too...not just us, but a counselor or psychologist. You clearly care about her and you've seen people get really badly hurt before, so this has got to be taking a toll on you too..it sure sounds like it from what you've posted here. And if you wind up being her sole source of positive emotional support, it will be important for you to have someone to talk to so it doesn't drag you down with her. And they may help you find some good strategies for helping her too.

 

[quasar987]

My question is... what would be the best way to destroy her trust in her friend, and make her hate her ex?

Try to become even more or an abusive badboy jerk as her ex is!

 

[Tom McCurdy]

for starters calm down-- ie don't come to pf and ask for advice from string theorists and microbiologists on dating-- there may be better resources then again many of us have been in the same situation. Calm down-- relax don't make a big deal out of it or it will only become harder and harder to do...

if you want to start to "make your move"

here are some easy ways to start off small
just hold her hand and start to rub it a little
use your finger and move it back and forth

this flirting usually makes it obvious what is going on without risking for the kiss if it feels to acward

just slowly progress it will become natural-- if she starts to massage ur hand back ur good to go

carefull though this tactic has had people going to far to quickly

 

[Tom McCurdy]

ok i must have missed something -- my post was in response to first post

 

[Moonbear]

ok i must have missed something -- my post was in response to first post

Yep, you did. He got the girl! http://deephousepage.com/smilies/boldpurple.gif

See, PF isn't such a bad place to get dating advice

 

[Zeteg]

Well... here's the thing. Her parents are quite strict, and won't even let her date yet. The problem lies in the fact that she does it without her parents even knowing. If they found out, she'd be grounded for like... eternity. I don't want to press the information on them 'cause the toll will be pretty bad on her, and she'd probably end up hating me, which wouldn't help.

I don't want to see a school cousouler 'cause they won't really even try and help right now. School starts in about 3 hours, and thus they have about 1500 students to process and fix.

I shall take your advice and not approach too fast though. I guess slipping a question here and there might be the best way to work right now. Thanks.

There's no point in me talking to anyone about myself anymore. I'm just worried about her, 'cause I know I can make the right decisions. Thanks for the concern though.