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Alcohol use helps boost income: study

  1. Sep 16, 2006 #1

    Evo

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    Oh now this is preposterous. I agree that in "sales" socializing in places where you can meet potential clients can result in more sales, but I don't see how Zz or Moonbear cruising bars and tying one on will increase their income. Also, you do not need to drink alcoholic beverages just because you are in a bar.

    "WASHINGTON (AFP) - People who consume alcohol earn significantly more at their jobs than non-drinkers, according to a US study that highlighted "social capital" gained from drinking.

    The study published in the Journal of Labor Research Thursday concluded that drinkers earn 10 to 14 percent more than teetotalers, and that men who drink socially bring home an additional seven percent in pay.

    "They also said these conclusions provide arguments against policies aimed at curbing alcohol use on university campuses and public venues."
    Ok, well we don't want to prevent public drunkeness on our campuses. :uhh:

    "We created our hypothesis through casual observation and examination of scholarly accounts," the authors said." How much drinking? One beer or scotch or 5 or ten? When does it become counterproductive? Uhm, did they take into consideration the fact that people that drink heavily take more time off from work than non-drinkers, have more medical problems and lower productivity on the job? This usually equates to less pay or even losing your job.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060914/hl_afp/afplifestylehealthalcohol
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Sep 16, 2006 #2
    More disposable income means greater purchasing power for alcohol, or fewer working hours -> more drinking time? Dunno.
     
  4. Sep 16, 2006 #3
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060914/hl_afp/afplifestylehealthalcohol

    So they performed *casual observation" funded by a grant from an ideological think tank, coming to a bizarre conclusion which they went to very little effort to defend, but which happens to coincide with the stated goals of their funder. Hmm.
     
  5. Sep 16, 2006 #4

    Evo

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    Sounds like their "research" consisted mainly of sitting in bars. :rolleyes:

    And then suggesting that drinking on campus should be encouraged? Ok...
     
  6. Sep 16, 2006 #5
    Gee, I'd better have another, then....
     
  7. Sep 16, 2006 #6
    Found it! It's the FRONT PAGE headline of their funder, a libertarian think tank:

    http://www.reason.org/

    In return, page 2 of the paper is a full-page exposition of the mission goals of the libertarians:

    http://www.reason.org/pb44.pdf

    First there's an introduction where they "explain" how doctors are leading an economically unsound crusade against something they call "harmful". Once the ideology settles down, they get to the analysis, which is actually a meta-analysis of 38,000 voluntary responses to the GSS:

    http://webapp.icpsr.umich.edu/GSS/

    (38,000, that is, over the period of 1972-present!)

    Finally they define categories and subcategories (many of them), and from data where the mean values are apporximately equal to their own standard deviations, comes up with a rather weak conclusion which is two-sigma consistent with the null hypothesis. Fiddling with category boundaries had nothing to do with that, I'm sure. Finally, their Conclusion is far broader than their data set, mainly focusing on questioning various unrelated, untested hypotheses (no discussion of the siginificance of their own analysis.)
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2006
  8. Sep 16, 2006 #7

    wolram

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    I know for a fact that my boss wormed his way into his job via his drinking buddies, he can not do the job, and it has been prooved he is wanting in every respect, i am just glad that i have little contact with him, no matter what happens as long as he keeps in with his drinking buddies he will keep his
    job, to say how inept he is he gave me a transformer to fit to a machine, thinking it was a replacement for a 12v dc power supply.
    So yes i can well understand how people that drink with the right??? AHs
    earn more money than they warrent.
     
  9. Sep 16, 2006 #8
  10. Sep 16, 2006 #9

    Evo

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    Yes, that's always going to be true, but it doesn't apply to the general public. The same could be said for golfing. I have always been at a disadvantage in my job because I don't golf. Many sales deals are closed on the golf course.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2006
  11. Sep 16, 2006 #10

    Evo

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    Articles like this need disclaimers to alert the idot masses that it's a pile of horse poop. :grumpy:
     
  12. Sep 16, 2006 #11
    Anyone who gets plastered on a regular basis is not going to be my first choice to hand a raise out to. I personally don't conduct business within the confines of a bar, but I can understand (especially for salespeople) how people can use the setting to expand their social network. Alcohol does make it easier to engage in bolder conversation. It is also a usefull tool to obtain answers to questions that many times wouldn't be answered as truthfully. All of our sales guys play golf and I could care less for the game. I personally like to bowl but that is a bit too "blue collar" for most customers. One reason I prefer bowling to golf, two words-Air Conditioning.
     
  13. Sep 16, 2006 #12

    Moonbear

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    How many people really are teetotalers though? The only people I know in that category are either 1) former alcoholics who had to quit drinking completely to deal with their problems, or 2) avoid alcohol due to religious restrictions. In the first category of former alcoholics, when someone reaches that point of addiction, it's not much surprise if their career prospects have been adversely affected by their addiction. In the second category, those who have those sorts of religious beliefs also have other aspects of their belief system that probably hinders advancement in the most competitive, high paying careers, possibly by choice (the sort of back-stabbing and swindling that goes on there may not be very appealing to someone with such strong moral/religious convictions).

    Other than that, I don't know of anyone who doesn't sometimes drink socially. So, how much of a comparison is that? It doesn't mean the social drinking is what is advancing your career or pay, it just means on average, you'll find that highly paid people also drink socially, whereas that small percentage of people who entirely abstain may not seek such careers in the first place, or have lost their competitive edge due to an earlier battle with alcoholism.
     
  14. Sep 16, 2006 #13
    I don't know if the study holds any water, but it is true that any discipline you adopt, like refusing to drink, cuts you off from anyone who doesn't adopt the same discipline. You are percieved as looking down on them. At the same time I am, thus, cut off from people who drink and smoke pot, I've felt equally pushed away by people who used to smoke cigarettes but then quit. The fact is that we are uncomfortable around people who have vices we don't or, conversely, who don't have the vices we do. This could be a problem when business dealings are conducted in casual settings.
     
  15. Sep 16, 2006 #14

    Evo

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    My mother doesn't drink at all, and it's just a choice she made, just like I made a choice not to smoke. I do not drink alcohol if I am out with a client, or if I have to drive, I usually just request water wih a slice of lemon. You do not have to drink when you go out. And holding a drink in your hand, they don't know that's it's not a gin and tonic.

    This study specifically says "alcohol", that's obviously not true.
     
  16. Sep 16, 2006 #15

    Pengwuino

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    Ill take Harvard's word thank you :biggrin:
     
  17. Sep 16, 2006 #16

    Pengwuino

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    Or 3) people who see how idiotic even casual drinkers can act (but they don't tend to remember it :rolleyes:). You have no idea how much dirt you can get on people just by walking them into a bar and remembering not to drink for yourself :biggrin: I know a guy who basically has enough dirt on about 3 or 4 of his friends to ... i dunno, make them commit suicide haha. Plus I hate people who drink, period, so i don't. They act like jerks, and then they don't remember, then get pissed at you because they think you should let them off because they can't remember it themselves.

    And yes, that's just casual drinkers.

    Then again maybe "casual" and "excessive" drinking around here means something different then you guys.
     
  18. Sep 16, 2006 #17
    I'm sure it's sufficient to merely appear to be drinking. The point is not to alienate an authentic drinker by seeming to reject his or her vices.
     
  19. Sep 16, 2006 #18

    Moonbear

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    They said social drinking, not going out and getting plastered! Social drinking can mean as little as one drink. But, that's a big problem with just saying social drinking, because that can mean almost anything in terms of the amount of alcohol you drink. I've even gone out, ordered a drink to toast a special ocassion, got a glass of water with it, and after a few sips, only drank water. That would still count as social drinking, as would the other people who had two and three martinis and needed to call their spouses to drive them home.
     
  20. Sep 16, 2006 #19

    Moonbear

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    I think you're likely onto something there. If you KNOW someone is a teetotaler, it's likely they've been vocal about that choice to not drink, or their objections to drinking, and have alienated others in the process. Otherwise, you'd really never know. If you all go out to a bar, and one person just volunteers to drive, or just orders soda, you don't know they're a non-drinker, or if they just are being generous offering to be the driver, or just aren't in the mood for alcohol that night.
     
  21. Sep 16, 2006 #20

    Evo

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    You guys went off on a side road somewhere. This study is stating that ALCOHOL CONSUMPTION is directly related to income. They put "social drinking" in an added bonus category.

    Study: Drinkers Earn More Money Than Nondrinkers
    Social drinkers who hang out in bars bring home even bigger paychecks

    Numerous studies have shown moderate alcohol use can have important health benefits and now a new report finds drinking can help your wallet too. Drinkers earn 10 to 14 percent more money at their jobs than nondrinkers - and men who drink socially, visiting a bar at least once a month, bring home an additional 7 percent in pay.

    This is on the home page of the company that funded the "research".

    http://www.reason.org/

    Did you read that this is opposite the Harvard findings?
     
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