Alien life forms, do they exist?

[Rob060870]

If intelligent life does evolve in the universe then the question may be when, how long does an advanced Civilisation last for?. Say it lasted for one million years on average before being wiped out through natural disaster, consumes its resources, or war etc.then life could have evolved many times before us and may do many times after us.

One Million years is such a miniscule slice in time since the Big Bangs 13.7 Billion year history. there has been ample opportunity for maybe a Billion years or more before us for advanced life to evolve(2nd generation stars to form and stable Solar Systems to evolve), where is it?. How come SETI haven’t detected any artificial radio waves leaking into space from other Solar Systems?

The dinosaurs lived for many millions of years very successfully before being wiped out through natural disaster and they didn’t need to be very clever in order to achieve this. And if they hadn’t been wiped out then us primates probably wouldn’t have evolved.
If you played out the history of the Planet Earth millions of times I don’t think that we would necessarily have ended up with intelligent space faring civilisations, and Planet Earth as we know is perfect for life.

*NOTE- there seems to be a glitch with this site as after I post the whole thing disappears! until I post again then the previous post reappears!.

 

[Eyelegal]

Well it would be logical to assume that if a civilization lasted for millions of years, it would be highly unlikely that they could be wiped out. I am going to look at the Kardashev scale here, I know its not really that scientific but its the best model I know of.

Its estimated that in a million years, if we are still alive, we will have at least mastered numerous star systems. This is under the assumption that spaceflight can become a faster and safer method of transport. Once we master a few star systems we cannot become extinct, because one catastrophic event would not wipe all of us out. In my opinion this should be the ultimate goal of ANY civilization ever. You might ask, if a civilization had mastered the galaxy, where are they? Well...not here yet? If faster than light travel is impossible then it is going to take a very long time for a civilization to populate the galaxy. I am not sure what the limit for slower than light travel would be, but its going to take at least slightly over 100,000 years for a civilization to travel from one side of our galaxy to the other, and that's constantly in a straight line with no stops. Faster than light travel could make it a little faster, exponentially faster, or instant. Plus at a point I think a civilization would conclude that expanding more is pointless, they have enough space? And you have to remember, if Earth took 4.5 billion years to develop intelligent life, and the universe was created only 13.75 billion years ago, it could be logical to assume that other civilizations are only developed to a level comparable (+ or -) to us.

I thought that it had been discovered that radio waves don't actually travel as far as we thought they would before disappearing into noise, so it is highly unlikely that seti would pick anything up at all?

And if there had been a civilization like ours at some point in this planets history, would we not have evidence of it in the same way we have evidence of evolution from microbes to the creatures we have today? Its predicted that nature would take back the world fairly quickly, but there would still be a lot for us to see underneath this.

I agree that if we simulated the Earth's development of species over and over we would only get intelligence a very small percentage of the time, then again it could be the eventuality for all life harbouring planets. We just don't know. Intelligence could be the rule or the exception.

 

[Rob060870]

does everyone think that intelligent life needs to be carbon and water based, with a chemistry similar to our own ?

thats a good point there could be other life processes that are not based on carbon.however Who is to say that if other intellegent life is found why would it be based on biology at all?, it could well be machine based .

 

[Eyelegal]

thats a good point there could be other life processes that are not based on carbon.however Who is to say that if other intellegent life is found why would it be based on biology at all?, it could well be machine based .

Its possible, though they would have to be created by another intelligent entity wouldn't they?
How can a machine come together by itself in the same way that chemistry brought us together? At what point does machine life start? I don't think a collection of inert pieces that perform a task can come together by chance. You can't really make a comparison to how we were created, because the process is very different to the concept of a machine.

 

[Rob060870]

Its possible, though they would have to be created by another intelligent entity wouldn't they?
How can a machine come together by itself in the same way that chemistry brought us together? At what point does machine life start? I don't think a collection of inert pieces that perform a task can come together by chance. You can't really make a comparison to how we were created, because the process is very different to the concept of a machine.

I agree that machine based life/intelligence would have been made in the first place by biologically based life forms and didn’t say otherwise or try to compare the difference between the two. I merely stated that intelligent machine based life could be found instead of biologically based life forms. And entertained the possibility of biological non carbon based life forms (like silicon etc).

I wasn't suggesting that a machine come together by itself in the same way that chemistry brought us together or think that a collection of inert pieces that perform a task can come together by chance. And I never made a comparison between the two. of course the process of carbon based life/intelligence is different from machine based life/intelligence.

It could be possible that the makers that created the machines died out only leaving the machines?, or that the machine based life was on an exploratory mission to find other civilisations sent ahead by their creators?

 

[DaveC426913]

Guys, this is not the science fiction forum.

It's one thing to discuss the possibility of extra-terrestrial life, but speculating about machine offspring of extra-terrestrial technology is pretty far off the reservation.

 

[Tanelorn]

There is a chance that we are the highest intelligent life forms in the galaxy and even the universe at this present time. We might actually be a Trillion to one shot with all the right random events needed to make it happen.

However my view is that the universe has life giving properties and due to the vast numbers of worlds out there life exists elsewhere also. It probably can get stuck at any number of evolutionary points along the way so intelligent life is rare but I think there may be civilisations which have not self destructed and which may be 5 Billion years old already. A veritable gold mine of knowledge about our universe which they may not want to share for our own good.

 

[DaveC426913]

Undoubtedly.

Chances are, of there is life to discover, we will likely discover it roughly in the order of its ubiquity.

Think about an analogy between the galaxy and Earth. If we emerged from a tiny spaceship and started examining the few square millimetres around is, the first thing we'll discover is going to be the most pervasive forms - bacteria. We'll discover lots and lots of bacteria before we stumble upon our first ant, and we'll stumble upon lots and lots of insects before we stumble upon our first vertebrate. By the time we stumble upon a human, we will have thousands of discoveries under our belt.

So it is likely to be with discovery in our galaxy. For every planet with intelligent life, there will be 10 thousand that have bacterial life.

 

[Eyelegal]

I agree that machine based life/intelligence would have been made in the first place by biologically based life forms and didn’t say otherwise or try to compare the difference between the two. I merely stated that intelligent machine based life could be found instead of biologically based life forms. And entertained the possibility of biological non carbon based life forms (like silicon etc).

I wasn't suggesting that a machine come together by itself in the same way that chemistry brought us together or think that a collection of inert pieces that perform a task can come together by chance. And I never made a comparison between the two. of course the process of carbon based life/intelligence is different from machine based life/intelligence.

It could be possible that the makers that created the machines died out only leaving the machines?, or that the machine based life was on an exploratory mission to find other civilisations sent ahead by their creators?

Sorry I went in that direction, just wanted to cover my bases. I have always thought about us creating a race of machines, definitely very possible. There was a pretty cool documentary about first contact being between us and a machine probe, rather than life.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFap3IEvGjo"

Guys, this is not the science fiction forum.

It's one thing to discuss the possibility of extra-terrestrial life, but speculating about machine offspring of extra-terrestrial technology is pretty far off the reservation.

I definitely would not have thought the idea of machines creating other machines is science fiction. By that definition your almost saying that the idea of the voyager probes is science fiction. They do not replicate but they are a form of machine life created by an intelligent civilization, drifting through space, are they not?

I thought we already had self replicating systems at certain levels, sure nowhere near the level of a lone machine creating a new machine from scratch, but we use computers/machines to create other computers/machines today.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-replicating_machine"
And with the power of computers increasing in the way it is, estimates of 20 years (possibly less) for a computer as powerful as the human brain is pretty soon.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2005/may/22/theobserver.technology"
Its something we really need to start thinking about now. And with the research into quantum computing, some incredible computing power hidden inside the atom.
Definitely not science fiction.

Ironically I found this when looking for information.
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=448369"
Same guy that started this thread, that's pretty cool.
What were the chances ? Estimate of only 10 years for artificial brain.

 

[DaveC426913]

By that definition your almost saying that the idea of the voyager probes is science fiction. They do not replicate but they are a form of machine life created by an intelligent civilization, drifting through space, are they not?

No.10 char

 

[Eyelegal]

What would constitute machine life?

 

[DaveC426913]

What would constitute machine life?

Good question. It is a made-up term.

I can think of a few things that, if I really wanted to stretch the definition, might fit, such as von Neumann devices, or virtual life, but they're still just metaphorical life.

In fact, I'm not entirely sure that 'machine life' isn't an oxymoron by definition.

But really, isn't that kind looking for zebras instead of horses when we hear hoof beats? If we are looking for alien life, why would we try to postulate some wildly speculative concept such as machine life?

 

[Integral]

This thread is wandering way off topic.

Closed for moderation.