Am I overusing this forum and homework helpers?

[Femme_physics]

I keep getting great help time and time again. I'm kinda worried people would be sick of me, heh. I think the helpers see that I'm putting a lot of work (I always make sure to scan my answers and write clearly), and thought into the exercise, and I always make sure to thank them. But lately I've been feeling as though I've been overloading the helpers, mainly because this is passover break so I've been off work and studies for a week and a half now, so I've had plenty of time to overindulge myself. Should I cut them some slack and try to just deal with textbooks on my own, or is it okay that I keep repeatedly nudging them for help?

 

[fss]

If people don't want to help you, they won't. Nobody's obligated to help anyone. If you're putting in the effort, I don't see a problem with asking for more assistance.

 

[cobalt124]

IMO it shouldn't matter. Homework help is voluntary not compulsory (isn't it?), so presumably you are being helped because helpers want to help you, and you're a good "student" to help. Mind I'm not a helper, so maybe I don't know.

 

[Filip Larsen]

People are free to choose to help you or not, so I wouldn't worry on that account. However, if you feel this way, it may be that you should give yourself a bit more time to solve your problems before turning for help, for your own sake. Solving difficult problems yourself will (everything else being equal) benefit you. Turning to the forum to check your results should be fine, though.

 

[Femme_physics]

I guess you're right, thanks :) Just kinda worried sometimes what ppl think of me. physicsforums is a community after all.

 

[Femme_physics]

People are free to choose to help you or not, so I wouldn't worry on that account. However, if you feel this way, it may be that you should give yourself a bit more time to solve your problems before turning for help, for your own sake. Solving difficult problems yourself will (everything else being equal) benefit you. Turning to the forum to check your results should be fine, though.

Yes, I was somewhat worried I'm jumping the gun and not trying to think more. Good point.

 

[micromass]

I always like your questions, and as long as you present your work and an attempt I'll be happy to help.
To be honest, there are some people on this forum who I refuse to help right now, because they just refuse to post a decent attempt and they expect me to answer their question while not trying anything.

Be assured, if we wouldn't like you, then we wouldn't help you

 

[erok81]

Not that it helps the helpers, but I bought a sub since I was getting help on a lot of problems.

I post a lot of help problems as well. I even had two in the same forum the other day. That was a little embarrassing. :)

My latest problem is my classes are right on the border of intro and advanced physics. I think I don't get a lot of answers because I'm in the wrong section. But who knows.Since we are on the subject, micromass (or any other helpers) what can we do better in our posts to make it easier on you guys?

 

[Femme_physics]

I always like your questions, and as long as you present your work and an attempt I'll be happy to help.

:)

Since we are on the subject, micromass (or any other helpers) what can we do better in our posts to make it easier on you guys?

Good question! :D

 

[micromass]

Not that it helps the helpers, but I bought a sub since I was getting help on a lot of problems.

I post a lot of help problems as well. I even had two in the same forum the other day. That was a little embarrassing. :)

My latest problem is my classes are right on the border of intro and advanced physics. I think I don't get a lot of answers because I'm in the wrong section. But who knows.


Since we are on the subject, micromass (or any other helpers) what can we do better in our posts to make it easier on you guys?

I think the mentality is the most important part. You need to show that YOU want to solve the problem, not just get the answer. For example, a (hypothetical) question that I would not like is:

Title: Need help ASAP! Homework due in 1 hour!

Calculate the derivative of f(x)=2x^2. I really don't know where to start!

It could very well be that you don't know where to start, but at least you could post something. At least show that you looked up what a derivative is... I could show you some posts of real members that I don't like, but I don't think that would be ethical...

The questions that I LOVE answering are of people who have already been searching for the question for some time. And then they report on what they tried, and what failed and so on. If encounter such a post, I always try to help (unless I don't know the answer of course, but even then I make sure other people come in and help).

And when asking a conceptual question, always try to provide some background so we can bring the answers on your level. For example, if you want to know what a derivative is, tell us what relevant classes you already took, why you want to know what a derivative is and what you already get about it. That really makes things easier for us.

And I really appreciate that you purchased a gold account. I'm not much with it, but at least it shows us that you like the help we're giving you...

 

[Femme_physics]

Don't these types of questions get deleted though?

I think the mentality is the most important part. You need to show that YOU want to solve the problem, not just get the answer. For example, a (hypothetical) question that I would not like is:

Always making sure to do. :) I disagree with the term "homework", it reminds me of elementary studies with bible and history. Most of us are serious grown-ups, this is more like coursework exercises.

 

[jtbell]

In the US, we usually call it "homework" even at the college/university level.

Just out of curiosity, do you have access to a formal or informal study group at your university? When I was an undergraduate, long before the Internet existed, we physics majors hung out in what we grandly called the "physics library" (whose collection consisted of castoff instructors' review copies of old textbooks). At almost any time of day there were at least a few people there, doing homework, reading, or chatting. Most of us probably spent more of our waking hours there than in our dormitory rooms.

 

[Femme_physics]

In the US, we usually call it "homework" even at the college/university level.

Just out of curiosity, do you have access to a formal or informal study group at your university? When I was an undergraduate, long before the Internet existed, we physics majors hung out in what we grandly called the "physics library" (whose collection consisted of castoff instructors' review copies of old textbooks). At almost any time of day there were at least a few people there, doing homework, reading, or chatting. Most of us probably spent more of our waking hours there than in our dormitory rooms.

Sadly for passover they closed the universities/colleges shut, although it's good idea in principle, I just never find my classmates there...

 

[micromass]

Don't these types of questions get deleted though?

Yes, the question that I posted would normally get deleted. But this is just one extreme. There are other types of questions where you just feel that the OP has no real interest in the problem and just wants to get the answer out of you. I often hesitate in answering another question of such a person... (luckily, there are not much of these posters here).

 

[jhae2.718]

Using proper spelling, grammar, and punctuation helps, as does having correctly formatted equations in LaTeX. For programming questions, use of code tags and indentation is a must.

It helps to have a descriptive title; I ignore things like "Plz help due immediately". I also like well-written and thought out descriptions of the problem, the solution attempt, and further thoughts on a solution. Including diagrams and graphics is a plus, especially if computer generated.

Basically, the poster should put forth effort.

 

[micromass]

as does having correctly formatted equations in LaTeX.

Indeed, having your equations LaTeXed is a great help! At least, people should be using ^supscript and _subscripts. But very often a non LaTeXed post is very hard to read, even for native TeX-readers like me

 

[Pengwuino]

Personally I have no problem with people not using Latex. I think it would be quite daunting if I were some new person in physics and seeking some help and found this great forum full of people helping and am told "You might want to learn Latex". Hell, I had no idea how to code anything as an undergrad and to be told "hey, not only do you need to know coding, you need to know a type-setting code". Now, for those of us who know how to use Tek, type-setting is way simpler than actual coding languages, but my very very first impressions long ago were "what the hell is a type-setting language?!??!". Ha!

Anyhow, to reinforce what everyone else has been saying, all most homework helpers want is a subject that isn't "PLZ HELP DUE IN AN HOUR" and a decent enough show of effort. We don't care how often because if you show effort, obviously you're trying to learn. What people don't want to do, and typically these kinda threads get ignored, is help people who obviously just need an answer so they can pass the class.

I remember a few weeks ago someone posted 10 questions and said "I don't know how to do these". That was such a pain in the *** because I would tell him he needs to actually put some thought and effort into it and I would try to help him question by question. So I start with problem 1 and try to explain it. However, by the time I posted the reply, he posts 2 more replies "ok i think i got 1, is it b)?" and then "Ok so #3 is c) and #4 is d) i think". In other words, he obviously hadn't even tried to do it on his own before asking me.

I hope I gave him the wrong answers.

 

[jhae2.718]

Also, if an expression can be ambiguous, use parentheses.

Isn't there a thing for LaTeX that you can click on the symbol you want? (I can't seem to find it, and since I'm a native-TeX speaker I don't use it, but if there's point and click it doesn't take too much effort...)

 

[D H]

Basically, the poster should put forth effort.

Basically, you have nailed it.

One caveat, though: That effort needs to illustrate learning. Some posters (I'm not writing about you, femme_physics!) have learned how to put forth just the minimal effort needed so as to induce our homework helpers to do the bulk of the posters' homework for them. When I see too much of this over an extended period of time from one person makes me feel much less inclined to offer that person help.

 

[Femme_physics]

Indeed, having your equations LaTeXed is a great help! At least, people should be using ^supscript and _subscripts. But very often a non LaTeXed post is very hard to read, even for native TeX-readers like me

It's just as good to scan though, right?

Basically, you have nailed it.

One caveat, though: That effort needs to illustrate learning. Some posters (I'm not writing about you, femme_physics!) have learned how to put forth just the minimal effort needed so as to induce our homework helpers to do the bulk of the posters' homework for them. When I see too much of this over an extended period of time from one person makes me feel much less inclined to offer that person help.

Yikes, that's bad. If they're smart enough to do that, they ought to be smart enough to realize that somebody else doing your homework is no way to learn.

 

[jhae2.718]

It's just as good to scan though, right?

If it's legible, it's almost as good. (I am a big TeX fan.)

 

[flyingpig]

I think the Math Community of this forum hates my gut lol. The Physics Forum is almost fed up with my stupidity on Gauss's Law.

 

[jhae2.718]

Another benefit of typeset equations is that work can then be quoted line by line to explain errors/etc.

 

[Ryker]

Personally I have no problem with people not using Latex. I think it would be quite daunting if I were some new person in physics and seeking some help and found this great forum full of people helping and am told "You might want to learn Latex". Hell, I had no idea how to code anything as an undergrad and to be told "hey, not only do you need to know coding, you need to know a type-setting code". Now, for those of us who know how to use Tek, type-setting is way simpler than actual coding languages, but my very very first impressions long ago were "what the hell is a type-setting language?!??!". Ha!

I don't know, I find it really hard to read non-TeX posts in the homework section and usually just skip them, unless it's something really basic, where you don't need it and the sub/superscripts are sufficient. And as someone who has also already looked for homework help before, I always try and type it up in TeX, even though I had no clue such a thing even existed prior to coming here. I haven't actually mastered it yet either, I'm just learning as I go on an "as needed" basis. But every time I need to use a new symbol or whatever, I just look it up. A quick Google search gets you exactly what you need in less than a minute, and I don't think that's too much to ask of posters in the section, to be honest.

 

[erok81]

Basically, you have nailed it.

One caveat, though: That effort needs to illustrate learning. Some posters (I'm not writing about you, femme_physics!) have learned how to put forth just the minimal effort needed so as to induce our homework helpers to do the bulk of the posters' homework for them. When I see too much of this over an extended period of time from one person makes me feel much less inclined to offer that person help.

Any helpers that help me, please let me know if I am doing that. There were a couple of my posts that took me 30+ minutes to type up with all the LaTeX I had to write out. But there has also been a couple where I had zero idea where to start and that may have come off as being lazy.

I try my best to do as much research before. I learned my lesson in calc I and II that going right to the solution manual when you get stuck is not good for learning.