Am I understanding the intepretations correctly?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the interpretations of quantum mechanics, specifically the Copenhagen interpretation and the von Neumann-Wigner interpretation. Participants explore the relationship between measurement, consciousness, and wavefunction collapse, examining different perspectives on these interpretations.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the Copenhagen interpretation does not link measurement with consciousness, stating it only indicates that systems exist in superposition until measured.
  • Others argue that the Copenhagen interpretation requires a subjective division between the "real" part of the world and the "quantum" part, suggesting that the concept of a "conscious observer" is one way to describe this division.
  • There is a claim that the von Neumann-Wigner interpretation specifically posits that consciousness is necessary for wavefunction collapse, with references to Eugene Wigner's eventual abandonment of this view.
  • Participants express the idea that the meaning of the Copenhagen interpretation can vary significantly depending on the source referenced.
  • Some responses challenge the validity of the sources cited, suggesting they are not textbooks or peer-reviewed papers, and thus may not be reliable.
  • A participant describes a referenced article as a "straw man," arguing that it misrepresents the Copenhagen interpretation before critiquing it.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the interpretations discussed. Multiple competing views remain regarding the nature of the Copenhagen interpretation and its implications for measurement and consciousness.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the definitions of terms used, the assumptions underlying different interpretations, and the lack of references to established textbooks or peer-reviewed literature.

Trollfaz
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Some (non quantum woo) articles say that its the Copenhagen interpretation that suggests that a conscious observer is needed to collapse the wavefunction. It is my understanding that the Copenhagen interpretation only states that everything exists in a superposition until measured. It does not make any effort to link measurement with consciousness. I believe that its the von Neumann-Wigner interpretation that says consciousness collapses the wavefunction. Also, Eugene Wigner eventually abandoned his work on this interpretation. Am I understanding the interpretations correctly?
 
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Trollfaz said:
Some (non quantum woo) articles say

Please give specific references.

Trollfaz said:
It is my understanding that the Copenhagen interpretation only states that everything exists in a superposition until measured.

Please give specific references for where you are getting your understanding from.

The answer to your question is probably going to be that what "the Copenhagen interpretation" means depends on which reference you use.
 
PeterDonis said:
The answer to your question is probably going to be that what "the Copenhagen interpretation" means depends on which reference you use.

Based on the references you give (none of which are textbooks or peer-reviewed papers, btw, so none of them are really valid sources), this is indeed the answer.
 
Trollfaz said:
Some (non quantum woo) articles say that its the Copenhagen interpretation that suggests that a conscious observer is needed to collapse the wavefunction. It is my understanding that the Copenhagen interpretation only states that everything exists in a superposition until measured. It does not make any effort to link measurement with consciousness. I believe that its the von Neumann-Wigner interpretation that says consciousness collapses the wavefunction. Also, Eugene Wigner eventually abandoned his work on this interpretation. Am I understanding the interpretations correctly?

All forms of Copenhagen require subjective division of the world into a "real" part and a "quantum" part. The language varies, but the "conscious observer" is simply one way to describe the need for this subjective division.

Copenhagen does not say that everything exists in superposition until measured. The superposition or wave function is part of the "quantum" part of the world. Copenhagen is agnostic about the reality of the quantum part. The quantum part is regarded simply as a tool to predict the probabilities of observations that occur in the "real" part of the world.
 
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