An extremely long power tower

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the feasibility of calculating and expressing an extremely large number generated by a power tower, specifically one involving powers of 2. Participants explore the implications of such large numbers, their notation, and potential connections to the Ackermann function.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses doubt about the calculability of the number in decimal notation and seeks validation of their approach to the problem.
  • Another participant identifies the number as wow(4) or f_4(4) in the Ackermann hierarchy, suggesting it is beyond meaningful computation.
  • A different participant emphasizes the rapid growth of the power tower and illustrates the size of the number after just a few iterations, indicating that it becomes impractically large very quickly.
  • There is a mention of ultrafinitism, which may relate to the discussion of large numbers and their expressibility.
  • A participant reflects on their initial question about expressing the number, acknowledging the impracticality of such an endeavor.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the number is too large to be expressed in decimal notation or computed in a meaningful way. However, there is no consensus on the implications of this size or the relationship to the Ackermann function.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the assumptions about notation and the growth rate of the power tower, as well as the unresolved nature of how to approach such large numbers conceptually.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those exploring large numbers, computational limits, or the Ackermann function within mathematical and theoretical contexts.

golden3159
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An extremely long "power tower"

Hey, this isn't really a homework or classwork question. My professor always puts questions that he finds interesting on our notes. This really got my attention, I've been trying to see if it's possible to write a computer program to solve it.

However, I've come to the conclusion that this number is simply too large to be calculable in decimal notation. I was just wondering if you could tell me if I've done the right things.

First of all here is the information for the problem:
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/4931/problemy.th.png

And the problem itself
[PLAIN]http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/1779/49195211.png

(Sorry for using so many pictures instead of typing this out, my browser is having some issues with using the toolbar items above). Anyways, after working this out, the conclusion that I come to is that I need to keep a power of 2's, in the following fashion:
[PLAIN]http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/5981/part2s.png

I have to have a height of more than 65,000 on the tower! As far as I am aware, this would produce a number FAR too massive to compute. Am I on the right track and is there any possible way to even obtain a decimal notation of the above problem? Thanks.

EDIT: Just a side thought, is there any relation to this and the Ackermann function at all?`
 
Last edited by a moderator:
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The number you describe is [itex]wow(4)[/itex], i.e.[itex]f_4(4)[/itex] in the Ackermann hierarchy - the Ackermann function itself being [itex]f_\omega[/itex].

There is no chance of an exact computation in decimal digits in meaningful time, nor would there be any way of physically holding or displaying the digits.
 


golden3159 said:
is there any possible way to even obtain a decimal notation of the above problem?

I understand you probably realize this is too massive to be expressed in decimal notation (and even too massive to be expressed reasonably as it is in the power tower form!) but just watch at how fast the tower power grows in decimal notation so your hopes of expressing this can be destroyed into fragments of shattered dreams... :-p

[tex]2^2=4[/tex]

[tex]2^{2^2}=2^4=16[/tex]

[tex]2^{2^{2^2}}=2^{16}=65,536[/tex]

[tex]2^{65,536}\approx 10^{19,728}[/tex]

Only 4 applications and the resulting number is 19728 digits long!
 


Presumably "A" stands for Ackerman.
 


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultrafinitism"
 
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Looking back at my original post, I am not sure why I even asked if it was possible to express in the first place. I should have known better. I guess I just wanted to make sure I had arrived at the proper notation at least. Thanks for the answers guys.
 

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