An Introduction to Quantum Field Theory (Peskin and Schröder) - Page 22

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around deriving expressions related to quantum field theory, specifically focusing on equations from Peskin and Schröder's text. Participants are exploring the derivation of the gradient of the field operator and the implications of normal ordering, as well as addressing specific equations and terms in the Hamiltonian formalism.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks to derive $$ grad\hat{\phi} $$ from the expression for the momentum operator $$ \hat{P} $$, questioning the role of normal ordering.
  • Another suggests starting without normal ordering and reproducing a previous equation to facilitate understanding.
  • Several participants discuss the use of the conjugate momentum term in the Hamiltonian, questioning why a product of two different momentum terms is used instead of squaring the momentum operator.
  • There is a discussion about the transition from one equation to another, with one participant explaining that it simplifies the evaluation of the commutator.
  • Another participant introduces the concept of creation operators and their implications for particle physics, including the notion of negative momentum and energy.
  • One participant explains the definition of the physical momentum operator and its derivation from the energy-momentum tensor.
  • Another participant provides a detailed mathematical approach to handling integrals involving creation and annihilation operators, suggesting that certain terms may vanish under specific conditions.
  • A participant expresses confusion about eliminating certain terms in their calculations, seeking clarification on how to proceed with the algebra involved.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints and questions, indicating that there is no consensus on several aspects of the derivations and interpretations discussed. Multiple competing views remain, particularly regarding the handling of specific terms in the Hamiltonian and the implications of the equations presented.

Contextual Notes

Some participants reference specific equations and terms from Peskin and Schröder, indicating that familiarity with the text is necessary for understanding the discussion. There are unresolved mathematical steps and assumptions regarding the treatment of operators and integrals.

Breo
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Hello,

Can someone tell me how to derive:

$$ grad\hat{\phi} $$

from:

$$ \hat{P}= -:\int \mathrm{d³}x [\pi (x) grad\hat{\phi}(x)]: = \int \mathrm{d³}p [p a⁺(p)a(p)] $$

Are all vectors. Note normal ordering ":" is used.

I want to understand well QFT and want to learn to do this calcs.

Thank you in before hand.
 
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Try doing it first without the normal ordering -- it's similar to their calculation of ##H## in eq(2.31). Actually, you should probably start by reproducing eq(2.31) in more detail than P+S provide. If you can do that, then eq(2.33) will become easier.

(If you need more help than this, you'll have to "show your attempt" -- similarly to the HW forums.)

BTW, the latex macro for the "grad" is \nabla, i.e., ##\nabla## .
 
strangerep said:
Try doing it first without the normal ordering -- it's similar to their calculation of HH in eq(2.31).


I already did it but I have a doubt. Why I must use: $$\mathcal{H} \ \alpha \ \hat{\pi}(x)\hat{\pi}(x') $$ instead $$ \hat{\pi}^2(x) $$ due to the hamiltonians form which is written (in my course notes) as follows:

$$ \mathcal{\hat{H}}=\frac{1}{2}\int d³x \hat{\pi}^2(x) + \phi(x)(\Delta + m²)\phi(x) $$ \phi is defined in two states and \pi in one to square power.

And why they made this change from (2.25) to (2.27):

$$ a⁺_p e^{-ipx} = a⁺_{-p}e^{ipx} $$
 
Last edited:
Breo said:
Why I must use: $$\mathcal{H} \ \alpha \ \hat{\pi}(x)\hat{\pi}(x') $$ [...]
I don't know what you're referring to.

And why they made this change from (2.25) to (2.27):
$$ a⁺_p e^{-ipx} = a⁺_{-p}e^{ipx} $$
So they could factor out ##e^{ipx}## -- which makes it easier to evaluate the commutator (2.30).
 
strangerep said:
I don't know what you're referring to.

I mean he multiplies a conjugate momentum term of (p) and (x) times another with (p') and (x') instead the first square.

Because we are taking care of hermitians quantities?
 
Breo said:
I mean he multiplies a conjugate momentum term of (p) and (x) times another with (p') and (x') instead the first square.
[...]

If you're talking about something in Peskin & Schroeder, you must give a precise reference, otherwise I cannot help you.

If you're talking about some other notes, then I definitely cannot help you since I'm not familiar with those.
 
Breo said:
And why they made this change from (2.25) to (2.27):

$$ a⁺\_p e^{-ipx} = a⁺_{-p}e^{ipx} $$

In addition to this answer

strangerep said:
I don't know what you're referring to.

So they could factor out ##e^{ipx}## -- which makes it easier to evaluate the commutator (2.30).

you should note that the operator a p is the creation operator, i.e, it creates new energy levels (as said in non-relativistic quantum mechanics) or new particles (as said in quantum field theory). The change that you mentioned physically means that creation of a particle moving in the negative x direction can be considered as creation of a particle with negative momentum.

Considering the four-vector notation, the negative sign for the momentum pμ indicates negative energy and negative sign for xμ indicates negative direction in time. So, in the later stages (once Dirac's equations are discussed), you'll probably understand that the said substitution also signifies the inclusion of antiparticles into the Hamiltonian (because, antiparticles are considered to move backwards in time (Feynman's approach) OR possesses negative energy (Dirac's approach))
 
I don't understand what is your question. The physical momentum operator is defined by:
[itex]P^i = \int d^3x T^{0i}[/itex]
Where [itex]T^{\mu \nu}[/itex] is the energy momentum tensor. The energy momentum tensor is obtained by applying the Noether's theorem on your lagrangian. That is already derived in P+S and used...
So [itex]P^i = - \int d^3 x ( \pi \partial_i \phi)[/itex]

You cannot derive the [itex]\partial_i \phi[/itex] from this for all I can see... the [itex]\partial_i \phi[/itex] is found by applying the derivative onto the solutions [itex]\phi[/itex] you found for the free scalar field after quantization:

[itex]\phi (x) =\int \frac{d^3 k}{(2 \pi)^3 \sqrt{2 \omega_\textbf{k}}} \big ( a_\textbf{k} + a_\textbf{-k}^{\dagger} \big ) e^{i \textbf{k} \cdot \textbf{x}}[/itex]
 
Also for your other question, aparart from the physical answer given by Vanamali, you can do it by hand:

[itex]\int \frac{d^3 k}{ (2 \pi )^3 \sqrt{\omega_k}} (a_k e^{ikx} + a_{k}^{\dagger} e^{-ikx})[/itex]

this is two integrals, I take only the 2nd and write it:

[itex]\int \frac{d^3 k}{ (2 \pi )^3 \sqrt{\omega_k}} a_{k}^{\dagger} e^{-ikx}[/itex]

Do a change [itex]k \rightarrow -k[/itex]. The [itex]\omega_k = \sqrt{m^2 + |k|^2} = \omega_{-k}[/itex] (doesn't change. The [itex]d^3k \rightarrow -d^3 k[/itex] and also the integration limits ar going to be interchanged...to bring them back to what they were before, they wll take the minus of the differential .. [itex]a_k^\dagger \rightarrow a_{-k}^\dagger[/itex] and the [itex]exp(-ikx) \rightarrow exp(ikx)[/itex]. The result will then be the one you ask for...
I think the best reason to explain why you do that is bcause it makes the whole algebras easier when multiplying fields...a field multiplication like: [itex]\phi \phi[/itex] would else have 4 exponentials, while now it will have only 2...
 
  • #10
Hello, I also try to prove eq. 2.33 in page 22
by replacing phi(x) as you mentioned in
Pi=−∫d3x(π∂iϕ)

but i got struck with 4 term with a†a†, aa ,a†a, and aa†
I don't know how to go next to get rid off first 2 terms (because the last 2 terms can use the commutation relation to combine it as number operator)

How do i get rid of the "a†a† and aa" terms?
 
  • #11
can you give the expression?
 
  • #12
Here is the picture of my note (I wrote it in Thai but just see the equations)

you can see that the last equation has 4 terms with creation and annihilation operator

I have no idea how to eliminate a†a† and aa term I don't want to just ignore it.
IMG_20150416_025413.jpg


sorry for adding picture instead of typing them. I am quite new for writing LATEX. Thank you
 
  • #13
upload_2015-4-16_3-8-9.png


in case the pic is not clear
 
  • #14
Yup the expression seems correct...
Try to think about the last (your problematic) terms, what would happen if [itex]p \leftrightarrow -p[/itex]
Obviously the integral of those terms should vanish :smile: (if Peskin is right)
 

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