Analogy to Damped , Driven Oscillator.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding real-world situations that can be modeled as damped and driven oscillators, specifically through the lens of the differential equations x'' + ax' + bx = 0 and x'' + ax' + bx = F. Participants explore various examples from physics, biology, and chemistry, seeking to identify systems that exhibit both damping and driving forces.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests using a planet in orbit through a resistive medium, questioning if another planet's proximity could serve as a driving force.
  • Another proposes a spherical pendulum but struggles to identify a corresponding driving force.
  • A participant mentions the idea of a small ball oscillating in a hemisphere, speculating on the effects of spinning the hemisphere as a potential driving force.
  • Biological examples are considered, such as blood-sugar levels or the response to an infection, with participants discussing the damping and driving forces in these contexts.
  • One participant introduces the concept of spinning satellite dynamics, noting that it is a linearized system but has a higher order than the original equations discussed.
  • An electrical circuit example is provided, which satisfies the differential equation but is noted as a common example that the original poster wishes to avoid.
  • Another participant mentions oscillating chemical reactions, such as the Briggs-Rauscher and Belousov-Zhabotinsky reactions, suggesting they may be modeled by differential equations but could be nonlinear.
  • Concerns are raised about the applicability of linearization to chemical reactions and the need for further inquiry into their dynamics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a variety of ideas and examples, but there is no consensus on a specific system that meets the criteria outlined by the original poster. Multiple competing views and suggestions remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Some participants acknowledge the complexity of identifying appropriate driving forces in various systems, and there is uncertainty regarding the linearization of chemical reactions and their modeling.

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Hi everyone. I have a project where I need to find a situation this is, or is similar to, a damped oscillator. That is, the Differential Equation (DE) for the system must follow:

x'' + ax' + bx = 0

And, further, it must have some situation corresponding to being 'driven' or 'forced', that is:

x'' + ax' + bx = F

Where F is some term (analogous to a driving force in a mechanical system, which could be a constant, or F=F(x) or F=F(t) or F=F(x,t).

For instance, for a mass on a spring, if x is the displacement, ax' would be the damping term (or a(x')^2), and bx the restoring force. F could be some sinusoidal driving force F(t).

But, I do not want to do the spring on a mass. And not an oscillating electrical circuit either. I though of doing a planet in orbit, moving through some resistive medium, but I cannot think of a driving force. Perhaps another planet coming close to it in its orbit? Would this work? I also thought of a spherical pendulum with two degrees of freedom, but again couldn't think how a driving force comes into it.
Maybe a small ball oscillating (rolling) in a hemi-sphere? If you spin the hemi-sphere does that act as a driving force or not? I think that will only contribute to the damping term, and not correspond to a driving force.

I also thought of doing something from biology. Say, your body's response to a meal. Your blood-sugar levels must decay exponentially right? Or an infection. 'x' could represent the number of bacteria or viruses, then the 'damping' term could be your immune response, and the 'driving force' a drug your taking, but what would the restoring force be (the term proportional to x, bx)?

I am looking for anything that can be modeled by the first DE, and has something corresponding to being driven, that is, the non-homogeneous form,with the "F" on the RHS. It can be from physics, biology, economics, whatever. However, I have only studied physics, and not those other subjects, so it should be something me as an outsider can grasp.

Any help is very much appreciated. Thank you.
 
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Take (linearized) spinning satellite dynamics. They are easy to find. But the system order is 3 if that matters.
 
An electrical circuit with capacitor of strength C, resistance R, and Inductance L, with external power source proving power at f(t) satisfies the differential equation
L\frac{d^2I}{dt^2}+ R\frac{dI}{dt}+ \frac{1}{C}I= f(t)
where I(t) is the current in the circuit. Radio waves are produced as a result of resonance in such a circuit.
 
Thanks for the suggestion trambolin. If it is in some way analogous to an oscillating system with a damping and driving force, then it will be ok.

HallsofIvy- I could do an electrical circuit, but this is a classical example of the type of system I'm taking about, and has been done to death. I was thinking of doing something more off-the-beaten-track.
 
well, oscillation part, you are right! It is not oscillating but put some friction in the gyros then you have at least half of it ! Hmm, Not much stuff in nature is oscillating in a linear fashion but. Then a pendulum with joint friction would be also OK! Also there was this liquid mixture, oscillating by colors that would be fancy but I don't remember the name of the reaction.
 
OK we have Briggs-Rauscher, Belousov-Zhabotinsky, Four-Color Oscillating Reaction etc. These are the names that I could find. But better ask chemistry people they would give you the equations of dynamics... Good luck
 
Thanks a lot trambolin. I'm not sure I understand the stuff about satellites. Would it fall under the subject of Celestial Mechanics?

Thanks for showing me the world of oscillating chemical reactions. Wow. Amazing stuff. There are even some clips on Youtube, pretty cool stuff. In my preliminary research (google), it doesn't seem like they are modeled by a DE. But as you say, I should probably ask a chemistry boff.

Thanks again trambolin.
 
No problem, regarding the DE of the reaction, it should be obviously DE but maybe they are nonlinear. But still, you can pick up an operating point (probably origin) and linearize the equations so your system will be locally realistic (initial conditions from a neighborhood of origin) as it is for small angles in a pendulum case.
 

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