And - Or - Not in terms of one another

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the expressibility of boolean operators, specifically examining how boolean AND and OR can be represented in terms of NOT, and the challenges associated with expressing NOT using only AND and OR. The conversation includes theoretical aspects of logic and implications for computer logic.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that boolean AND can be expressed as NOT (NOT a OR NOT b) and OR as NOT (NOT a AND NOT b).
  • Others argue that NOT is a monadic operator, while AND and OR are dyadic, which may explain the difficulty in expressing NOT in terms of the other two.
  • A participant presents a hypothetical scenario involving a boolean expression that leads to a contradiction when attempting to express NOT in terms of AND and OR.
  • Another participant questions the meaning of atomic sentences and their independence, suggesting that the truth values of propositions may not always be independent if they are composed of other variables.
  • Clarifications are made regarding the definition of atomic sentences and logical equivalence, with emphasis on the conditions under which certain expressions hold true.
  • One participant mentions the Sheffer stroke as a potential alternative for expressing AND, OR, and NOT, while another clarifies that this was not the original question posed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the expressibility of NOT in terms of AND and OR, with no consensus reached. The discussion includes both supportive arguments and challenges to the claims made.

Contextual Notes

Some statements rely on specific interpretations of logical operators and their relationships, which may not be universally applicable. The discussion also touches on the implications of using atomic versus composite propositions, introducing additional complexity to the arguments presented.

N123
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It is possible to express the boolean AND in terms of boolean OR and boolean NOT:
a AND b <=> NOT (NOT a OR NOT b)
Similarly,
a OR b <=> NOT (NOT a AND NOT b)

Why can't we express NOT in terms of OR and AND?
 
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Suppose we have a boolean expression ##\phi(A,B,C,\dots...)## built up by the atomic sentences ##A,B,C,\dots##and the connectives ##\land## and ##\lor## only, such that ##\phi(A,B,C\dots)\equiv\neg A##.
Since the truth value of ##\neg A## is independent of the truth values of ##B,C,\dots##, the equivalence will still hold if we replace ##B,C,\dots## with any sentences, in particular, if we replace them all with ##A##, so ##\phi(A,B,C,\dots)\equiv
\phi(A,A,A,\dots)##, the latter being built up from ##A##, ##\land##, and ##\lor## only. But since ##A\land A\equiv A## and ##A\lor A \equiv A##, ##\phi(A,A,A,\dots)## can be successively reduced to ##A##, so, ##\phi(A,A,A,\dots)\equiv A##.
Thus, ##A\equiv\neg A##, which clearly is a contradiction.
 
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Erland said:
ϕ(A,B,C…)≡¬A\phi(A,B,C\dots)\equiv\neg A.
Since the truth value of ¬A\neg A is independent of the truth values of B,C,…B,C,\dots, the equivalence will still hold if we replace B,C,…B,C,\dots with any sentences,

Clever! I am almost ready to buy it.
What do you mean by atomic sentences? Are B, C etc propositions or are they literals? Not sure yet if it matters, but if A, B, C are themselves composed of other "variables" X, Y, Z then their truth values may not be independent.
But then again, they are independent in the general case.
For example: NOT A = B U C if the universal set is {A, B, C}.
Apologies for the lack of rigor in the language used to express these ideas, I am not a mathematician.
 
I mean that ##A,B,C, \dots## are atomic sentences or propostions, i.e. that they are not built up from simpler propositions by connectives. But as you say, it doesn't really matter, everything I wrote still holds whether ##A,B,C,\dots## are atomic or not, independent or not, etc...

Edit: ##\equiv## means logical equivalence, which means that e.g. ##\neg(A\land B)\equiv \neg A \lor \neg B## means that ##\neg(A\land B)## and ##\neg A \lor \neg B## either are both true or both false, no matter which truth values we assign to ##A## and ##B##. We can have an interpretation where ##\neg A\leftrightarrow (B\lor C)## is true, but this is not true for all interpretations.
 
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OP: Have you considered using the Sheffer stroke?
 
WWGD - that is not my question. I know that AND, OR, NOT can be expressed in terms of NAND (Sheffer stroke.) Also, just using NOR.
 

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