Another christoffel symbols from the metric question

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the Christoffel symbols from a given metric expressed as ds^2 = -A(r)dt^2 + B(r)dr^2. Participants are exploring the relationships between the metric components and the resulting equations of motion derived from the Euler-Lagrange equations.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are attempting to derive the Christoffel symbols using the Euler-Lagrange equations, with some expressing confusion over the appearance of certain terms, particularly the mixed term involving A'. Questions are raised about the interpretation of derivatives and the role of the parameters in the equations.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing insights and corrections to each other's reasoning. Some guidance has been offered regarding the interpretation of the derivatives, but there is no explicit consensus on the correct form of the Christoffel symbols or the source of the confusion regarding the mixed term.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working under the constraints of the problem statement and are questioning the assumptions made about the derivatives and the structure of the Lagrangian. There is a noted concern about potential typos in the expressions for the Christoffel symbols.

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Another "christoffel symbols from the metric" question

Homework Statement



Find the Christoffel symbols from the metric:

ds^2 = -A(r)dt^2 + B(r)dr^2

Homework Equations



\frac{d}{dt} \left( \frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{x^a}} \right) = \frac{\partial L}{\partial x^a}



The Attempt at a Solution



Pretty straight forward, but I'm not seeing where one of the cross-terms comes from. I used the euler-lagrange eqns to rearrange for the equation of motion so I could just read the christoffel symbols off:

the t-component of the E-L eqns is zero, so moving on to the r...

\frac{d}{dt} \left( \frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{r}} \right) = \frac{\partial L}{\partial r}

\Rightarrow \frac{d}{dt} \left( 2B(r)\dot{r} \right) = -A'(r)\dot{t}^2 + B'(r)\dot{r}^2

\Rightarrow 2B'(r)\dot{r} + 2B(r)\ddot{r} = -A'(r)\dot{t}^2 + B'(r)\dot{r}^2

\Rightarrow 2B(r)\ddot{r} + 2B'(r)\dot{r} - B'(r)\dot{r}^2 + A'(r)\dot{t}^2 = 0

\Rightarrow \ddot{r} + \frac{B'(r)}{B(r)}\dot{r} - \frac{B'(r)}{2B(r)}\dot{r}^2 + \frac{A'(r)}{2B(r)}\dot{t}^2 = 0

But I'm not seeing how the answer given tells us that

\Gamma^r_{tt} = \frac{A'(r)}{2B(r)}
\Gamma^r_{tr} = \frac{A'(r)}{2A(r)}
\Gamma^r_{rr} = \frac{B'(r)}{2B(r)}

From my EOM's it looks like I have the r_rr and r_tt symbols, but I'm not seeing where this r_tr symbol is supposed to come from. I have an extraneous rdot floating around that doesn't have a corresponding tdot , but even if it did, there has to be an A' in the numerator of that factor, so what gives? Where'd I go wrong?
 
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t is a coordinate. Just like r. Don't presume that the "dot" means derivative with respect to t. Write your Euler-Lagrange equation with "dot" meaning derivative with respect to some arbitrary parameter \eta:

\frac{d}{d \eta} \left( \frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{x^a}} \right) = \frac{\partial L}{\partial x^a}
 
Last edited:


Dick said:
t is a coordinate. Just like r. Don't presume that the "dot" means derivative with respect to t. Write your Euler-Lagrange equation with "dot" meaning derivative with respect to some arbitrary parameter \eta:

\frac{d}{d \eta} \left( \frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{x^a}} \right) = \frac{\partial L}{\partial x^a}

I agree and it makes sense that I should have a tdot * rdot cross-term, but I'm not seeing where this phantom A' is coming from in that cross-term.

If the partial of L with respect to rdot is really a partial, then it shouldn't act on the -A(r) term in the first part of the lagrangian:

L = -A\dot{t}^2 + B\dot{r}^2

applying partial wrt rdot:

\frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{r}} = 2B\dot{r}

and lacking any A's in the numerator or denominator of the soon-to-be cross term

\frac{d}{dt} (2B \dot{r} ) = -A'\dot{t}^2 + B'\dot{r}^2

\Rightarrow 2B' \dot{t}\dot{r} + 2B\ddot{r}= -A'\dot{t}^2 + B'\dot{r}^2

\Rightarrow 2B \ddot{r} + 2B'\dot{t}\dot{r} + A'\dot{t}^2 - B'\dot{r}^2 = 0

\Rightarrow \ddot{r} + \frac{B'}{2B}\dot{t}\dot{r} + \frac{A'}{2B} \dot{t}^2 - \frac{B'}{2B}\dot{r}^2 = 0

gives us the Christoffel symbols:

\Gamma^r_{tr} = \Gamma^r_{rt} = \frac{B'}{2B}
\Gamma^r_{tt} = \frac{A'}{2B}
\Gamma^r_{rr} = \frac{B'}{2B}

I'm thinking the mixed term has to be a typo, I can't see what I did wrong otherwise.
 


You are making some mistakes there. E.g. \frac{d}{d \eta} (2B \dot{r} ) = 2B(r) \ddot{r} + 2 B'(r) {\dot r}^2 There is no single \dot r term. And the mixed term is coming from the other EL equation:
\frac{d}{d \eta} \left( \frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{t}} \right) = \frac{\partial L}{\partial t}
 

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