Antinodes and Nodes on a Waveworm

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the identification of nodes and antinodes in the waveform defined by the equation y2(x) = sin(x*1.2) + sin(x*1.8). Participants explore methods for finding both nodes (where the waveform equals zero) and antinodes (peaks of the waveform), discussing mathematical approaches and challenges in deriving clean solutions.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant identifies the nodes of the waveform and provides specific x-values where y2 = 0, suggesting formulas for finding these nodes.
  • Another participant reformulates the waveform using a sum-to-product identity, leading to a different expression for y2 and deriving the nodes from this new form.
  • To find the antinodes, one participant proposes equating the derivative of the waveform to zero, leading to a trigonometric equation that remains unsolved in a straightforward manner.
  • Participants discuss the complexity of solving the derived cubic equation for the cosine values and suggest numeric methods for approximating the roots.
  • Back-substitution is mentioned as a method to find x-values for the antinodes, but some participants express confusion about this process.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus on a clean method for finding the antinodes, and participants express differing levels of understanding regarding the back-substitution process. Multiple approaches and perspectives on solving the problem remain present.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes unresolved mathematical steps, particularly in solving the trigonometric equation for the antinodes and the complexities involved in back-substituting values.

tristancohn
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i have a waveform:
y2(x)= sin(x*1.2)+sin(x*1.8)

the first 6 nodes, meaning the parts of the wave where y2=0 come up on my graph at around x =

2.094
4.189
5.236
6.283
8.377
10.471

you can find the nodes easily (where y2=0) with either x = n*pi/(1.5) or x = (2n+1)*(pi/0.6), where n = 0, 1,2 3, and so on.

what I really want to find is the antinodes (peaks) of y2, similar to on this graph where the line turns black:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7a/Graph_of_sliding_derivative_line.gif

which are at around x =

1.006
2.979
4.665
5.808
7.492
9.466

I know that the antinodes for y2 come up at 1.8*COS(1.8*x)+1.2*COS(1.2*x)=0
but i just can't find a clean way of finding them.
:confused:
 
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We are given the waveform:

$$y_2(x)=\sin\left(\frac{6}{5}x \right)+\sin\left(\frac{9}{5}x \right)$$

It appears what you have done to find the nodes is apply a sum to product identity to get:

$$y_2(x)=2\sin\left(\frac{3}{2}x \right)\cos\left(\frac{3}{10}x \right)$$

Because, in this form, the angular velocity of the sine factor is an odd multiple of that of the cosine factor, the period $T$ of the function is therefore:

$$T=\frac{10}{3}\pi$$

and the roots (nodes) are at:

$$x=\frac{2k}{3}\pi,\,\frac{5}{3}(2k+1)\pi$$ where $$k\in\mathbb{Z}$$

Here is a plot of the function over one period:

View attachment 1286

The nodes for this period are at:

$$x=0,\,\frac{2}{3}\pi,\,\frac{4}{3}\pi,\,\frac{5}{3}\pi,\,2\pi,\,\frac{8}{3}\pi,\,\frac{10}{3}\pi,\,$$

So far , so good. To find the anti-nodes, we obviously want to equate the derivative with respect to $x$ of the given waveform to zero:

$$y_2'(x)=\frac{6}{5}\cos\left(\frac{6}{5}x \right)+\frac{9}{5}\cos\left(\frac{9}{5}x \right)=0$$

Multiplying through by $$\frac{5}{3}$$ and letting $$u=\frac{3}{5}x$$ we obtain:

$$2\cos\left(2u \right)+3\cos\left(3u \right)=0$$

At the moment, I can't think of a nice clean way to solve this trigonometric equation, but perhaps someone else will know of a method.

Using double and triple angle identities for cosine and letting $v=\cos(u)$, we then get:

$$12v^3+4v^2-9v-2=0$$

We could obtain exact values for the roots of this cubic, but I find such methods cumbersome, and then we are left to take the inverse cosine function of these roots anyway, so I suggest we approximate the roots.

Using a numeric root finding method, we find:

$$v\approx-0.941785319480139,\,-0.214929385113036,\,0.823381371259841$$

Back-substituting, where $$x=\frac{5}{3}\cos^{-1}(v)$$, we then find:

$$x\approx1.00575387440944,\,2.979026418974480,\,4.66449632903117$$

By the symmetry of the wave form about $$x=\frac{5}{3}\pi$$, we may then give the other anti-nodes in the plotted period as:

$$x\approx5.80747918293481,\,7.492949092991497,\,9.466221637556537$$
 

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MarkFL said:
Back-substituting, where $$x=\frac{5}{3}\cos^{-1}(v)$$, we then find:

$$x\approx1.00575387440944,\,2.979026418974480,\,4.66449632903117$$

By the symmetry of the wave form about $$x=\frac{5}{3}\pi$$, we may then give the other anti-nodes in the plotted period as:

$$x\approx5.80747918293481,\,7.492949092991497,\,9.466221637556537$$

Thanks, I don't really understand how you back-substitute x though.
 
I took the approximations for $v$ and used $$x=\frac{5}{3}\cos^{-1}(v)$$.
 

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