Anyone considering a career as a patent attorney?

[bdkelly1203]

First of all thank you for taking the time over the past year to respond to all of these inquiries. After searching as I have you are really one of the only sources on the internet that has done this and I truly do appreciate your insight into this field.

My name is Brandon Kelly and I am a Civil Engineering major from The University of Wisconsin. I have been looking for work for the past 2 years and have since decided to go to graduate school. I have applied for Business, Education, and Engineering Graduate Programs all over the country for the 2013-14 School Year. Today I was emailed by the president of a university to apply for their Masters of Science in Patent Law Program.

This is the first time I've ever been aware that a field like this exists. I was considering going to get my MBA or Masters then ideally a JD later in life, but I think this would lead me in that direction ideally at a faster rate, utilize my experience, and also provide a decent living wage.

I wanted to know if you knew of the job market in different cities, where I would be looking to relocate upon graduation. I am from (and currently living) in Cleveland, Ohio, and will be willing to relocate anywhere in the country. Ideally the bigger the city the better (and warmer). Also, I wanted to make sure that this masters program was sufficient. As it does prepare you as a patent agent to practice before the USPTO patent office.

In addition I wanted to know that which courses you suggest in regards to attaining the desired knowledge required in the field:

chemical sciences and engineering; electronics and electronic materials; bioscience, engineering and medicine; materials science and engineering materials; software, algorithms, and code; or mathematics and aerospace.

I have seen several jobs that focus on Computer and Electrical Engineering knowledge, I just wanted to make sure this was standard across the field for the most part.

Thank you again for all of your knowledge on this! It means a lot and I anxiously await your reply!

Brandon Kelly

 

[berned_you]

First of all thank you for taking the time over the past year to respond to all of these inquiries. After searching as I have you are really one of the only sources on the internet that has done this and I truly do appreciate your insight into this field.

My name is Brandon Kelly and I am a Civil Engineering major from The University of Wisconsin. I have been looking for work for the past 2 years and have since decided to go to graduate school. I have applied for Business, Education, and Engineering Graduate Programs all over the country for the 2013-14 School Year. Today I was emailed by the president of a university to apply for their Masters of Science in Patent Law Program.

This is the first time I've ever been aware that a field like this exists. I was considering going to get my MBA or Masters then ideally a JD later in life, but I think this would lead me in that direction ideally at a faster rate, utilize my experience, and also provide a decent living wage.

I wanted to know if you knew of the job market in different cities, where I would be looking to relocate upon graduation. I am from (and currently living) in Cleveland, Ohio, and will be willing to relocate anywhere in the country. Ideally the bigger the city the better (and warmer). Also, I wanted to make sure that this masters program was sufficient. As it does prepare you as a patent agent to practice before the USPTO patent office.

In addition I wanted to know that which courses you suggest in regards to attaining the desired knowledge required in the field:

chemical sciences and engineering; electronics and electronic materials; bioscience, engineering and medicine; materials science and engineering materials; software, algorithms, and code; or mathematics and aerospace.

I have seen several jobs that focus on Computer and Electrical Engineering knowledge, I just wanted to make sure this was standard across the field for the most part.

Thank you again for all of your knowledge on this! It means a lot and I anxiously await your reply!

Brandon Kelly

I am quite skeptical of the value of a "Masters of Science in Patent Law." To me, it sounds like a time consuming and expensive way to go. If you are concerned about prepping for the patent bar, there are many courses you can take in the couple of thousand dollar ranges that will last a few weeks. I would guess that this MS program would be much more expensive and time consuming. Employers will focus on two things: 1) your tech background and experience and 2) whether you passed the patent bar. A MS in Patent Law likely won't be understood by most employers because it's not typical or required. It won't hurt, but they likely won't put a lot of value in that degree. If you pass the patent bar, they presume you know the basics and can start working with a mentor. No amount of school work can 100% prepare you for work in the real world so this MS program won't be valued nearly as much, for example, as an internship. What I've just said should presumably make you really skeptical of the marketing in that school email.

As discussed within this post, your scientific background is quite important. Chemical sciences and engineering will require a MS or phD; electronics and electronic materials are highly in demand; bioscience likely needs a phD, engineering and medicine (vague, sorry, not sure how to respond); materials science and engineering materials (not bad); software (very niche), algorithms and code (avoid); or mathematics (avoid) and aerospace (very niche).

With respect to where to find jobs, it depends a bit. Odds are the larger the city, the larger the market. Obviously, if you know software you want to search near San Jose, if you focus on petroleum engineering you want to be near oil companies, etc., for medical devices you may want to search in the Twin Cities. If you're educated in the broad ME and EE sciences, for example, most of the US will be available to you for finding a job.

Sorry that I threw this together so fast but I think it answers your questions. Gotta run.

Lastly, GO BADGERS!

 

[chemraj]

Hi,
I have finished my PhD in Organic chemistry and I am working as associate scientist in medicinal chemistry laboratory in an academic institute. Prior to this, i have worked in IPM (Intellectual Property Management) department analyzing patents and finding a different way to start the project in a pharmaceutical industry.

Please advice me what should I be doing to become a patent agent. I had gone through this type forum a lot and understood that I need to pass bar exam. My question is how hard it is to pass the bar and after passing what is the procedure to find and apply for jobs (I think it is too early to ask-but i am curious).

 

[berned_you]

Hi,
I have finished my PhD in Organic chemistry and I am working as associate scientist in medicinal chemistry laboratory in an academic institute. Prior to this, i have worked in IPM (Intellectual Property Management) department analyzing patents and finding a different way to start the project in a pharmaceutical industry.

Please advice me what should I be doing to become a patent agent. I had gone through this type forum a lot and understood that I need to pass bar exam. My question is how hard it is to pass the bar and after passing what is the procedure to find and apply for jobs (I think it is too early to ask-but i am curious).

The exam is not easy but neither is all the schooling you've been through. It will take work but I'm sure you can do it. Once you pass, you can simply apply for any job for a patent agent with a chemical/pharma background that you may find online or through networking/cold calls. There's no special process.

 

[chemraj]

Thank you very much for the reply..May i know how much would be the relative competition and how hard it is to get the job with PhD in organic/general chemistry and 3+years of pharmaceutical industrial experience with masters.

 

[tjackson3]

I'm a graduate student in applied math. I've received my MS and am debating on continuing on for my PhD. How much would having the PhD over the MS help me if I were to become a patent lawyer? Also, I'd heard that the patent legal market was the one area that was still doing well in terms of hiring new lawyers, but a previous post you made seemed to disagree with that. Have things changed since that first post?

 

[Ach]

If I was an electrical engineer, how much work experience would be recommended to reliably secure a job as a patent attorney? Would I be able to go law school immediately after getting my degree, or would it be better to get a couple years of experience in actual engineering first?

 

[Ach]

Also, would advanced engineering degrees be significantly helpful?

 

[berned_you]

@Ach - there is no formula. It's nice to have some experience but it's not required. What constitutes "some" is subjective. I went to law school right after obtaining my engineering degree. Advanced engineering degrees don't hurt but aren't a necessity.

I know my response isn't terribly helpful but I can't tell you what to do in this case. Having more experience and more education is "better" but it's not required. At some point you have to do what you want to do. There is no formula for finding a job. Even if you have the perfect resume you may not quickly find a job if you are not personable or if you are not committed to finding a job. Being personable and committed to finding a job could overcome a less "shiny" resume. It all depends on a lot of factors and there are no guarantees for anything in this world.

 

[ds_02]

Hey, I am from India. I have done my B.tech in Electronics and Instrumentation. After working in management for a couple of years I am considering career in IP. The course that I plan on appearing for also provides CASRIP certificate from University of Washington.

Can you tell me what is the relevance of this certificate and how it will be useful if I take US Patent Bar Examination in future?

 

[berned_you]

Hey, I am from India. I have done my B.tech in Electronics and Instrumentation. After working in management for a couple of years I am considering career in IP. The course that I plan on appearing for also provides CASRIP certificate from University of Washington.

Can you tell me what is the relevance of this certificate and how it will be useful if I take US Patent Bar Examination in future?

See the attachment in post #7 of this thread for the requirements to sit for the patent bar.

 

[rxfeliciano]

Hello, first off I want to say thanks a lot for posting all this information. It's hard to get so much information in one place like this. I recently graduated with a BS in Aerospace Engineering with a low GPA. I have 2 questions for you:


1. I know you have mentioned the fact that mechanical engineering majors are attractive to patent firms. What about aerospace engineering majors? At my school mechanical and aero majors were on the same track until our senior years with most of the classes overlapping both majors.

2. Assuming I were to pass the patent bar exam, what are the chances of me getting a job as a patent agent with no experience in my field? Do firms look at your GPA? And if so, how could I overcome this?

Thanks again for your help!

 

[berned_you]

Hello, first off I want to say thanks a lot for posting all this information. It's hard to get so much information in one place like this. I recently graduated with a BS in Aerospace Engineering with a low GPA. I have 2 questions for you:


1. I know you have mentioned the fact that mechanical engineering majors are attractive to patent firms. What about aerospace engineering majors? At my school mechanical and aero majors were on the same track until our senior years with most of the classes overlapping both majors.

2. Assuming I were to pass the patent bar exam, what are the chances of me getting a job as a patent agent with no experience in my field? Do firms look at your GPA? And if so, how could I overcome this?

Thanks again for your help!

1. The best way to get an idea is to check job postings for patent agents. If you see jobs for this background, you know there is good demand. If not, well...it could be difficult to find a job. I agree that you're probably qualified for working on mechanical patents but there is less of a demand for patent agents in the mechanical area because most mechanical patents are not very high tech. Again, look at job postings and get an idea of what firms are looking for and where they need expertise.

2. Having no work experience and a low GPA will be two strikes against you. This can, potentially, be overcome with lots of networking, hard work and maybe a little luck. Most patent agents I meet are super educated and experienced in their tech fileds. As discussed previously, patent agents are most often needed where it's challenging for a patent attorney (who has a basic tech background) to understand the subject matter that's being patented because it's highly advanced and the technology field is advancing at a fast pace. To be a sought-after patent agent candidate, you need to know more about the technology than the attorneys you are working for.

If you really want to work in the patent field, consider applying to be a patent examiner as discussed herein. It's much easier to find a job with the patent office and will, at the very least, provide you with excellent experience to beef up your resume.

 

[Brittney]

Must you pass the patent exam to practice as a IP attorney? Are patents and trademarks the only IP fields that require certification from the USPTO?

 

[berned_you]

Must you pass the patent exam to practice as a IP attorney? Are patents and trademarks the only IP fields that require certification from the USPTO?

Passing the Patent Bar Exam is required to prosecute patents before the USPTO. There is no corresponding requirement for trademarks and copyrights.

 

[chemraj]

Dear friends

I have a question here. Do we only have few dates to take the exams or we can take the exam anytime just like GRE. I know we have to get the clearance from USPTO to register for the exam, so once we get accepted from USPTO are we allowed to book the date for the test at any available date.

Looking forward to here from someone.

 

[berned_you]

Dear friends

I have a question here. Do we only have few dates to take the exams or we can take the exam anytime just like GRE. I know we have to get the clearance from USPTO to register for the exam, so once we get accepted from USPTO are we allowed to book the date for the test at any available date.

Looking forward to here from someone.

Read this http://www.uspto.gov/ip/boards/oed/GRB_March_2012.pdf

 

[Kamala]

Hi,

I am a Biological Science PhD student, but due to some personal reason I won't be able to continue in the PhD program. I will eventually get a masters degree. I have experience (2.5yrs) in patent office in a big biologics company, India and the company trained me in US, EU as well as India patent laws. I also have a post-graduate diploma in patent law from National Law School, India. I want to know my chances of getting into a patent firm with my background. I am planning to write the patent bar exam soon and want to become a patent agent. My question is will a MS degree fetch me a job in a law firm or USPTO?? I know that I love patent work and really want to make a career in the intellectual property field. Your suggestions will help me decide my future goals.

 

[berned_you]

Hi,

I am a Biological Science PhD student, but due to some personal reason I won't be able to continue in the PhD program. I will eventually get a masters degree. I have experience (2.5yrs) in patent office in a big biologics company, India and the company trained me in US, EU as well as India patent laws. I also have a post-graduate diploma in patent law from National Law School, India. I want to know my chances of getting into a patent firm with my background. I am planning to write the patent bar exam soon and want to become a patent agent. My question is will a MS degree fetch me a job in a law firm or USPTO?? I know that I love patent work and really want to make a career in the intellectual property field. Your suggestions will help me decide my future goals.

I think your qualifications are strong. The Patent Office is almost always looking to hire examiners and I think your odds would be good with a firm too as a patent agent. That is not to say a job will be handed to you without much work but I think your chances of making a career in US patent law are rather good. If you want to apply to work at a firm you will need to pass the US Patent Bar examination but if you apply to work at the USPTO you will not and you will earn this qualification through working as an examiner. I note that I would emphasize your foreign patent knowledge and qualifications when applying for jobs at firms. I think that will help set you apart from other candidates.

Hope that helps.

 

[Kamala]

I think your qualifications are strong. The Patent Office is almost always looking to hire examiners and I think your odds would be good with a firm too as a patent agent. That is not to say a job will be handed to you without much work but I think your chances of making a career in US patent law are rather good. If you want to apply to work at a firm you will need to pass the US Patent Bar examination but if you apply to work at the USPTO you will not and you will earn this qualification through working as an examiner. I note that I would emphasize your foreign patent knowledge and qualifications when applying for jobs at firms. I think that will help set you apart from other candidates.

Hope that helps.

Thank You! Is there any study material that is freely available on web apart from MPEP to prepare for the patent bar exam? Do they also test on current patent litigations or case studies??

 

[berned_you]

@Kamala - Not sure about free study aids. You'd have to search and see what you find.

With respect to what's tested, see section IX of this document http://www.uspto.gov/ip/boards/oed/GRB_March_2012.pdf

 

[daisee]

hi @berned_you...thank you for starting this thread. I know I'm over a year late but would like some insight into Patent agent career and eventually IP law.
I have an undergraduate degree in Computer Science and a Masters in Public Health. I'm interested in law school but not sure that I can take the instant pay cut. I'm thinking of taking the patent exam and applying for a patent agent job as a means of learning the industry and earning a decent salary for the first two years then probably moving into full time after. I have solid work experience in the IT industry and hoping that I can leverage this for opportunities in patent law work. Have you seen any interest/demand for those with my background in the patent industry? I've seent the requirements for the exam, and I know that I meet them, but will I be marketable enough?

 

[berned_you]

hi @berned_you...thank you for starting this thread. I know I'm over a year late but would like some insight into Patent agent career and eventually IP law.
I have an undergraduate degree in Computer Science and a Masters in Public Health. I'm interested in law school but not sure that I can take the instant pay cut. I'm thinking of taking the patent exam and applying for a patent agent job as a means of learning the industry and earning a decent salary for the first two years then probably moving into full time after. I have solid work experience in the IT industry and hoping that I can leverage this for opportunities in patent law work. Have you seen any interest/demand for those with my background in the patent industry? I've seent the requirements for the exam, and I know that I meet them, but will I be marketable enough?

The interest and demand can be seen in job postings. As mentioned in previous posts, CompSci isn't as in demand as the engineering sciences but perhaps there are quite a few job openings in Silicon Valley, for example, and the demand is simply localized in various parts of the country. Do some job post searching and see what employers are looking for in the ares in which you would like to work. Hope that helps!

 

[ritaw]

I was recently accepted to a MS in Patent Law Program at the University of Notre Dame. This program is designed to teach students how to draft patent applications, read patents, search for patents, and prepare them to take and pass the patent bar. Does this seem like it would be something beneficial if my goal is to work as a patent agent?

My undergrad degree is Materials Science & Engineering. The only thing I am worried about is if I do this program will I be able to find a job as a patent agent? I'm not sure if MSE is a desired degree that is in demand.

Thank you!

 

[berned_you]

I was recently accepted to a MS in Patent Law Program at the University of Notre Dame. This program is designed to teach students how to draft patent applications, read patents, search for patents, and prepare them to take and pass the patent bar. Does this seem like it would be something beneficial if my goal is to work as a patent agent?

My undergrad degree is Materials Science & Engineering. The only thing I am worried about is if I do this program will I be able to find a job as a patent agent? I'm not sure if MSE is a desired degree that is in demand.

Thank you!

1. Yes it would have its benefits. Employers will focus heavily on your technical background though too. Just knowing about patents is one thing but knowing advanced technology is equally as important. That said, I'd ask yourself if you really want to invest in this patent agent program. To me, it seems to be an unnecessary expense (probably a huge expense). If you want training and experience, simply apply for a job as a patent examiner. I expect you would likely be hired and they will PAY YOU TO TRAIN YOU AND GAIN THE EXPERIENCE YOU DESIRE (not to mention give you government benefits/holidays). As mentioned in prior replies, you don't need any knowledge of patents to be hired as an examiner and they are hiring aggressively. The USPTO will put you through a thorough training program. Is working as a patent examiner for 2-3 years more valuable than a patent agent degree in an employers eyes? Yes.

2. MSE should be a pretty good background for a patent agent as it includes a good deal of ME and ChemE knowledge (which isn't nearly as straightforward as ME). As mentioned in previous replies, a good background is helpful but no background will guarantee you a job as a patent agent. It will still take work to find opportunities in this economy. You may have to work at the Patent Office as an examiner for awhile or change cities to find a job that suits you. Patent agent practice is somewhat of a niche field. They aren't exactly rare, but aren't as common as patent attorneys or engineers.

 

[pmarley2]

travel

how much travel is required? let's say you were an adviser/agent, hired as a phd tech person, at a firm like RG. and if you have to travel will they put you in first class.

 

[berned_you]

how much travel is required? let's say you were an adviser/agent, hired as a phd tech person, at a firm like RG. and if you have to travel will they put you in first class.

I don't expect that agents travel very much. You may perhaps travel occasionally to conferences or to visit a client but I think that generally there would not be much travel involved. I definitely would not expect to be put in first class. I do not travel in first class because it's on the client's dollar and the flights are not terribly long. I've flown with attorneys in coach who have been put on client's private jets in the past. That was a real treat for him but he doesn't expect that treatment. It all depends on the client and the situation. Generally, it's all about keeping clients happy and often that means keeping the bills as low as possible.

You will appreciate though that every job is different.

 

[smc44]

I have a mixed background. I have an undergraduate degree in English and a graduate degree in Computer Science. For the past 8 years I've been working for a Defense Contractor as a software engineer in the field of Digital Communications. Because my undergraduate degree was not in a science field, I took the Fundamentals of Engineering test, and applied to the USPTO under Category C (I believe I qualified under Category B, but Category C seemed like a lot less paperwork). I recently took and passed the USPTO Registration Exam. I'm at a crossroads in my current career. My current employer is encouraging me to enter a graduate program in EE, but for the past couple of years I've been contemplating going to law school and making a career switch into patent law. Do you think with my background I'd be a good candidate to make the career change? I'd appreciate any feedback. Thanks for your time. This thread has been very helpful.

 

[berned_you]

I have a mixed background. I have an undergraduate degree in English and a graduate degree in Computer Science. For the past 8 years I've been working for a Defense Contractor as a software engineer in the field of Digital Communications. Because my undergraduate degree was not in a science field, I took the Fundamentals of Engineering test, and applied to the USPTO under Category C (I believe I qualified under Category B, but Category C seemed like a lot less paperwork). I recently took and passed the USPTO Registration Exam. I'm at a crossroads in my current career. My current employer is encouraging me to enter a graduate program in EE, but for the past couple of years I've been contemplating going to law school and making a career switch into patent law. Do you think with my background I'd be a good candidate to make the career change? I'd appreciate any feedback. Thanks for your time. This thread has been very helpful.

I know in this day and age everyone would really like some certainty in making career choices. School is expensive and it's not always easy to change paths once you're down another. It's great you have a PTO registration and industry experience. A law degree would put you in the position to apply for patent attorney positions and also other pursue other types of law (if you graduate from law school and decide to do another type of law, it's not a big deal like with an undergrad degree). That said, it's very difficult to determine your career prospects. I think you could make it happen. As noted in other posts, a lot of a person's success is determined by factors such as work ethic, geographical location, networking and pure determination/desire. You could have no problem finding a job or it could be harder than you expect. I simply cannot speculate your success. I suggest you go with whatever plan you believe will make you happiest. Law school isn't something to pursue if you aren't entirely committed as there is no guarantee you will find a job quickly or make the big bucks.

 

[smc44]

I know in this day and age everyone would really like some certainty in making career choices. School is expensive and it's not always easy to change paths once you're down another. It's great you have a PTO registration and industry experience. A law degree would put you in the position to apply for patent attorney positions and also other pursue other types of law (if you graduate from law school and decide to do another type of law, it's not a big deal like with an undergrad degree). That said, it's very difficult to determine your career prospects. I think you could make it happen. As noted in other posts, a lot of a person's success is determined by factors such as work ethic, geographical location, networking and pure determination/desire. You could have no problem finding a job or it could be harder than you expect. I simply cannot speculate your success. I suggest you go with whatever plan you believe will make you happiest. Law school isn't something to pursue if you aren't entirely committed as there is no guarantee you will find a job quickly or make the big bucks.

I appreciate your response. I realize that it's a rather subjective questions and not easy to answer without knowing the specifics of my situation. I've spoken with a number of people, and I am always looking to solicit more feedback. I have a friend that works in HR at a large law firm, and she's been trying to get me to consider a job as a Technical Specialist/Science Advisor for a number of years.

Switching careers is a big decision, and for me many factors come into play. I like my current job. Sometimes it's really interesting, and sometimes I feel like I'm trapped in the movie Office Space. The people I work with are great. But in the end, I think I'd be happier doing something else. And I would like to build upon my prior education and experience, and not abandon it entirely for something else. Thanks again for your feedback and starting this thread. It has been really helpful.

 

[chemraj]

Hi there

Hi there,

I have finished my PhD in Organic-Chemistry six months ago and I had 3 yr pharmaceutical industrial experience. I could not focus on preparing for the patBar exam because of my present job and hoping to concentrate soon. I have a simple and straight forward question here, May I know exactly what is the job market for patent agents with the background I have after finishing the patBar exam if everything goes well.

Thanks
Raj

 

[berned_you]

Hi there,

I have finished my PhD in Organic-Chemistry six months ago and I had 3 yr pharmaceutical industrial experience. I could not focus on preparing for the patBar exam because of my present job and hoping to concentrate soon. I have a simple and straight forward question here, May I know exactly what is the job market for patent agents with the background I have after finishing the patBar exam if everything goes well.

Thanks
Raj

My guess is you would fare well as pharma patents will always be sought and this is a field where attorneys will often want the help of an agent who is an expert in the latest tech. That said, the economy kind of stinks and I suggest you check employment listings for such a position in your area and perhaps call a few patent attorneys who work in obtaining pharma patents and get their input. Because of your level of expertise, you may be in a position to create your own job opening through networking and making it known what you have to offer.

 

[physwizard]

How about a master's degree in theoretical physics, and bachelor's degree in electrical engineering?

 

[AASaunders]

I read through a few pages of this thread and decided to research the career further and I can say that it is something I could pursue once I finish my 4 year masters in physics.

However, I have a few questions. I am from the UK and I know I would have to sit the UK and EU examinations to become a qualified patent attorney. But, if I wanted to do this in the USA I would then have to take further exams, right? Is this a viable route? Is it possible for a person from the UK to be a chartered patent attorney in the USA?

Many thanks.

 

[berned_you]

I read through a few pages of this thread and decided to research the career further and I can say that it is something I could pursue once I finish my 4 year masters in physics.

However, I have a few questions. I am from the UK and I know I would have to sit the UK and EU examinations to become a qualified patent attorney. But, if I wanted to do this in the USA I would then have to take further exams, right? Is this a viable route? Is it possible for a person from the UK to be a chartered patent attorney in the USA?

Many thanks.

In the US, we have patent agents and patent attorneys. In order to become a patent attorney, you must have a law degree but to be a patent agent, you do not. If you intend to practice overseas and simply want to label yourself as qualified to prosecute patents before the USPTO, simply take the patent bar to become a "patent agent." Here are the requirements http://www.uspto.gov/ip/boards/oed/GRB_March_2012.pdf

 

[newyorkpl2013]

I graduated Law school recently with a concentration in IP (in New York). I should be sworn in shortly as I passed my character and fitness test. I have always considered going into patent law but I don't have a science degree which would make me eligible (however, all my electives in college were science-based, and my degrees are in the math/science field, but do not qualify me for the patent bar) . I would need about 30 credits to get a second bachelors, so I was thinking of going back to school to try qualifying for patent law. I haven't decided which science degree I’ll go into yet, but leaning towards engineering (I’m assuming it is most helpful when dealing with patents?...I am very science minded, and have enjoyed all fields of science, but the multitude of choices available to me makes this a difficult decision)

I read this forum and a lot of it was interesting, however most questions were asked from undergrads and not many from people that graduated from law school.

Anyway, here are some of my questions, thanks in advance!

1. My initial plan is to look for a full time job in IP law with some law firm, and at the same time go to school to pursue science degree (should take about a year or so) . Then I can qualify for Patent bar, and once I pass, I will look into getting a better job as a patent attorney. Just wanted to know if this is a good route?

2. When you first got a job as a patent attorney, assuming you had little or no experience, how was it getting started as an entry position? difficult? did you receive training?

 

[berned_you]

1. My initial plan is to look for a full time job in IP law with some law firm, and at the same time go to school to pursue science degree (should take about a year or so) . Then I can qualify for Patent bar, and once I pass, I will look into getting a better job as a patent attorney. Just wanted to know if this is a good route?

2. When you first got a job as a patent attorney, assuming you had little or no experience, how was it getting started as an entry position? difficult? did you receive training?

1. Most firms will hire a "patent attorney" or a "trademark attorney." I would expect that a firm will have little interest in you pursuing other types of IP than what you're initially hired to do. My job is one exception and I know there are others out there but it is unusual. Therefore, I do not think it's realistic to expect your employer to encourage you to pursue a patent bar registration if you are hired to do trademarks/copyrights and they may not provide you with any patent work even if you do obtain your registration. You can certainly discuss this topic with potential employers but asking could also indicate you don't really want to do what you're interviewing for so it's a catch-22. I realize this doesn't make a lot of logical sense but it's just the way most firms seem to be set up. I have a lot of friends that have little variance in the type of work they do.

2. Most firms hire new grads with the desire to mold them into the attorneys they want. Often mentors are assigned and, if not, you'll likely be reporting to an experienced partner who will give you tasks. These tasks will be preparing first drafts, essentially. Then, they will provide markups and feedback and that's how you learn. It took me about 3 years until I felt like I could do this job on my own.

 

[Jpoznan0587]

Science Undergrad. Online Schools

1)I am chemistry major, hoping to become a patent agent (or work in the field) with my bachelors, or even be a lab teacher while I can go to law school at night. Is there a evening or online school , THAT IS REPUTABLE, that I can go to , so I can work during the day, for a science undergrad. ? I have an associates in poli. sci. , and was able to do a lot of that online through community college and then also took some state college courses online as well. While I've switched my major to a science b/c I would like to study patent law (and I don't want to do engineering, in case I would like to teach lab at colleges while in grad. school ), I realize most of the classes are during the day and it is hard for me to work at night b/c there are little to no office jobs and I have zero experience bartending and serving. Is there any good schools that are online or at night time for a science undergrad ? I live in NJ.

2)Secondly, I'm in my sophomore year of chemistry. What would you suggest after or towards my senior year in preparation ? My ideal situation would be to go to law school at night and have a full time day job. While I understand I can take the upsto exam without a phD, I see that you wrote that you cannot get a job as a patent attorney without a phD. So what would you suggest I do upon graduation? Should I take the exam and try to get a job as a patent agent with hopes for law school at night? Or do you suggest I take a job with a chem. bachlors, possibly lab teacher or lab worker, and go to law school at night?

***My main problem is that I am 26 and still living at home. I have no family members or friends that went to any type of college, so I am doing this all on my own and really need guidance.)I went for the poli. sci. associates at 21 and got it 2 years later and took some time off to figure out what I wanted to do. Now, I took a few chem. classes and realized I'm very good with science and math, (Without taking it at all in HS) I was able to stay in the top 98% of my class. So, I would like to know what is the best suggested route without wasting anymore time and with hopes of after getting this bachelors, I can still continue on with school WHILE being able to make enough money to move out.

 

[nmendels]

Hello, I am going to finish a BS in Physics very soon and I am confident that I would eventually want to go into patent law. I have spent 3 summers doing research in physics (I have worked primarily with superconductors and high powered lasers). My question is after I graduate would it be worth getting a masters in something (either physics or some kind of engineering) or should I go straight to law school or should I try to do a joint ME/JD program. Also, do you know if getting an ME would necessarily make you much more employable?

 

[Law=My Life]

I'm still high school and I'm trying to get a head start on what I want to become in the future and becoming a patent lawyer seems to spark new ideas in my mind. I have a couple of questions.
1) Would I have to major in science to have a better on becoming a patent lawyer? If I do in your opinion which ones are the best?

2)What would be the best school for me to look into?
3)I really enjoy communicating with others face to face so how can I make sure I get to be in the courtroom but also do work outside the courtroom to make sure I am familiar with both sides of the work force?
4) How much is the difficulty stage on becoming a patent lawyer?
5) What type of degree do you suggest I should have to make sure my deal is sealed completely?
Thank you for your time and have a good day(:

 

[berned_you]

I'm still high school and I'm trying to get a head start on what I want to become in the future and becoming a patent lawyer seems to spark new ideas in my mind. I have a couple of questions.
1) Would I have to major in science to have a better on becoming a patent lawyer? If I do in your opinion which ones are the best?

2)What would be the best school for me to look into?
3)I really enjoy communicating with others face to face so how can I make sure I get to be in the courtroom but also do work outside the courtroom to make sure I am familiar with both sides of the work force?
4) How much is the difficulty stage on becoming a patent lawyer?
5) What type of degree do you suggest I should have to make sure my deal is sealed completely?
Thank you for your time and have a good day(:

1) Electrical engineers are always highly sought but there are other options that would also be acceptable.
2) This depends on too many factors to answer such as cost, major, personal preference, location...
3) "Patent attorneys" don't frequently get into the the courtroom as the work they do is mostly transactional with the patent office. If you want to see more of the courtroom, you want to become a patent litigator.
4) I'm not sure what you mean when you say "difficulty stage." That said, it is not easy to become a patent lawyer but it is hardly impossible.
5) No degree or set of degrees will guarantee you a job. Getting a job requires work in itself and you can't expect a job to be handed to you. Focus on extra curricular activities, good grades, practical experience and internships, networking and interpersonal skills for interviewing.

 

[yogurtsisi]

looking for internships

Hi,

I find this post extremely helpful! Thanks a lot for sharing and providing us patent lawyer/examiner wanna-be's guidance.

i have a couple questions regarding how to become a patent examiner.
here's a summary of my background: I am going to finish my undergraduate soon with a mechanical engineering degree, have some experience with research (had a couple internship with some university faculty members on their research projects), but no experience with legal matters.

my questions are:
1) do i have to take some classes to learn about public laws? (we only have political-science classes that are closest to laws and stuff)
2) should i take classes in writing? i know writing is quite different in legal documents. if there's no such classes offered in my school, are there any websites you'd suggest for me to learn how to write these legal documents? (i tried to look for them online, but just wondering if you have a website that you really like personally)
3) i want to do an internship program in Washington DC, and was searching for internship opportunities online. whenever i put in keyword as "patent examiner" or just "patent" the internship options came up are usually not what i am looking for; the closest ones are "legal assistant" but i am not looking to work in a law office since i am not studying law (or poli-sci in my case). thus, i am just wondering, what kind of internships (such as title of the job or keywords to search) would you suggest for undergrads to take in order to pursue a career in patent examiner (or lawyer)?
4) following from previous question, was just wondering if i should intern at a law firm? since patent examiner/lawyer are somewhat related to laws alot
5) is a master degree suggested/required?
6) is the bar exam required? some website says it is, some says it is not. i am quite confused.

sorry i have many questions. thank you for your patience and time!

thank you very much!

sincerely,

 

[berned_you]

Hi,

I find this post extremely helpful! Thanks a lot for sharing and providing us patent lawyer/examiner wanna-be's guidance.

i have a couple questions regarding how to become a patent examiner.
here's a summary of my background: I am going to finish my undergraduate soon with a mechanical engineering degree, have some experience with research (had a couple internship with some university faculty members on their research projects), but no experience with legal matters.

my questions are:
1) do i have to take some classes to learn about public laws? (we only have political-science classes that are closest to laws and stuff).
2) should i take classes in writing? i know writing is quite different in legal documents. if there's no such classes offered in my school, are there any websites you'd suggest for me to learn how to write these legal documents? (i tried to look for them online, but just wondering if you have a website that you really like personally)
3) i want to do an internship program in Washington DC, and was searching for internship opportunities online. whenever i put in keyword as "patent examiner" or just "patent" the internship options came up are usually not what i am looking for; the closest ones are "legal assistant" but i am not looking to work in a law office since i am not studying law (or poli-sci in my case). thus, i am just wondering, what kind of internships (such as title of the job or keywords to search) would you suggest for undergrads to take in order to pursue a career in patent examiner (or lawyer)?
4) following from previous question, was just wondering if i should intern at a law firm? since patent examiner/lawyer are somewhat related to laws alot
5) is a master degree suggested/required?
6) is the bar exam required? some website says it is, some says it is not. i am quite confused.

sorry i have many questions. thank you for your patience and time!

thank you very much!

sincerely,

1) No
2) It's always good to be able to communicate effectively and write intelligently. Therefore, I recommend taking a few writing classes but it is not required.
3) I do not believe the Patent Office offers internships. I worked as a legal assistant/secretary in the intellectual property department of a law firm when I was obtaining my undergrad degree. Some firms have summer programs for college students who want law firm experience. If you can not find such a position, do not worry. The Patent Office will train you to become an examiner. It would also be beneficial to gain ME industry experience through externships and internships while obtaining your undergrad degree.
4) You certainly can if this interests you. It is not required, however.
5) It will not hurt. It is probably not necessary to become a patent examiner for mechanical arts.
6) There are two types of exams. There are state bar exams and the patent bar exam. Neither are required to work at the US Patent Office as a patent examiner. If you would like to work as a patent agent or patent attorney, that's a different question and the bar exam requirements for each are discussed in prior posts.

Hope that helps.

 

[ravs]

I am in US on a non working visa. I have a masters in biotechnology and a PhD in life sciences from India. I was looking into career in Patent atorney but considering that i don't have a work permit, do companies do visa application for the post of patent agent? If not what is the way that i can pursue a career in IPR? Any suggestions will be really appreciated.

 

[berned_you]

I am in US on a non working visa. I have a masters in biotechnology and a PhD in life sciences from India. I was looking into career in Patent atorney but considering that i don't have a work permit, do companies do visa application for the post of patent agent? If not what is the way that i can pursue a career in IPR? Any suggestions will be really appreciated.

Sorry, I don't know.

 

[Astronuc]

I don't know if this has been covered, but this article seems relevant.

Recent developments in US patent law
http://scitation.aip.org/content/aip/magazine/physicstoday/article/65/1/10.1063/PT.3.1397
By Patrick M. Boucher, January 2012.

"Legislation making the US the last country to abandon the first-to-invent patent system should have a significant effect on the way scientists approach patenting."


Interesting bit of trivia from the article:

Abraham Lincoln, inspired by a mishap in which he found himself stranded on a sandbar, became the only US president to be granted a patent. Illustrated by the two figures shown here, the text of US Patent 6,469 begins: “Be it known that I, Abraham Lincoln, of Springfield, in the County of Sangamon, in the State of Illinois, have invented a new and improved manner of combining adjustable buoyant air chambers with a steamboat or other vessel for the purpose of enabling their draught of water to be readily lessened to enable them to pass over bars, or through shallow water, without discharging their cargoes.”

 

[gcombina]

how do you use your science background for patent law? can you give me an example? why an arts degree can't become a patent lawyer?

 

[berned_you]

how do you use your science background for patent law? can you give me an example? why an arts degree can't become a patent lawyer?

When drafting patent applications, you are drafting technical disclosure regarding how the invention works. If you have a technical background, you presumably have a better understand of scientific concepts, terminology, etc. than someone without a technical degree. When responding to patent office action rejections, you need to be able to review the prior art cited and understand it so you can prepare a persuasive response illustrating the differences between the reference and your invention.

That said, someone with an arts degree could obtain a patent bar registration if they prove to the patent office they have a strong technical understanding (either thru coursework taken or experience). It's a hard route, but is possible.

 

[jhconway]

Chem PhDs are highly desirable patent attorneys, especially in the pharmaceutical areas. It's hard to find people who have gone through so much schooling.

I would never recommend going to law school unless you really want to be a lawyer. It's just too much time, torture and money otherwise.

I would recommend, however, that you consider being a patent examiner as a backup career. The patent office has been hiring aggressively for the past few years to try and address the huge backlog of patents waiting to be examined (the 2012 budget includes 1,500 new examiner hires). An advanced degree is not required but would, of course, help you obtain one of these positions. It's my understanding that it's not difficult to get a job as an examiner due to the demand. The best thing of all is that to get hired as a patent examiner, you do not need any prior experience or knowledge of patents! The USPTO hires people with scientific backgrounds of all types and expects to train them fully. The PTO is also really great in that it has incredibly flexible hours for examiners and the office is essentially virtual so, after training, you can work from anywhere in the country. An advanced degree + a few years at the patent office would also make you a great candidate to be a patent agent after leaving the PTO (see above for description of this career). I suppose it's also possible to transition from a patent examiner role to a science role as well if you just need a job for a few years while the economy is in the crapper.

Hi,

I'm actually in a Chemistry PhD program, studying chemical biology (which is not always pharmaceutical in application, but encompasses all the concepts) and I'm wondering what my next step would be after attaining my doctorate if I were to go into patent law. I checked out that link to the USPTO, but there doesn't seem to be any offerings at the moment (though I do still have ~1.5 to 2 years to go in grad school) for chemists, and I'm not too crazy on relocating to the DC area (I'm originally from New England). From what I've read in this forum and elsewhere, it seems unwise to go straight to law school because firms can offer financial assistance for that after working for them. I guess the heart of my question is would I have to hunker down, study, and take the patent bar, then apply for patent agent positions, or are there opportunities for chemists besides perhaps the USPTO (if a job offering does pop up there)?

 

[berned_you]

Hi,

I'm actually in a Chemistry PhD program, studying chemical biology (which is not always pharmaceutical in application, but encompasses all the concepts) and I'm wondering what my next step would be after attaining my doctorate if I were to go into patent law. I checked out that link to the USPTO, but there doesn't seem to be any offerings at the moment (though I do still have ~1.5 to 2 years to go in grad school) for chemists, and I'm not too crazy on relocating to the DC area (I'm originally from New England). From what I've read in this forum and elsewhere, it seems unwise to go straight to law school because firms can offer financial assistance for that after working for them. I guess the heart of my question is would I have to hunker down, study, and take the patent bar, then apply for patent agent positions, or are there opportunities for chemists besides perhaps the USPTO (if a job offering does pop up there)?

I wouldn't bet on finding a firm that will finance your law school education. The economy has changed quite a bit in the last decade. I know this used to be true but I have not heard of such a benefit being offered in the past decade.

There are likely positions for patent agents having a phD in chemistry available but they may not be abundant or in the locations that interest you. Check job postings available online to get a better idea. Any patent job other than the Patent Office, however, would require you to pass the patent bar examination first before you would be hired.