Approaching the Torque and Ladder Problem

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Homework Statement


Diagram of a uniform ladder leaning against a vertical wall, with its top touching the wall and its bottom on the floor, marked with angle θ at the floor and length d along the ladder.


Homework Equations


F = μ FN

τ = r F

The Attempt at a Solution


how do I approach this problem? Mass isn't given. And If i set the top of the ladder to be the pivot point, the pivot point will move vertically downwards if the ladder slides - is that even allowed?
 
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If the ladder does not slip, the pivot point is also in rest. Collect all the forces and all the torques. What is the condition that the ladder does not start to move?
 
ehild said:
If the ladder does not slip, the pivot point is also in rest. Collect all the forces and all the torques. What is the condition that the ladder does not start to move?
Hand-drawn free-body diagram of a rod leaning against a vertical wall at a 55 degree angle to the floor, with red labels for forces: Fgx, Fw, Fn, Fgy.


does this look correct?
 
goonking said:
Free-body diagram of a ladder leaning against a vertical wall with its foot on a horizontal floor, angle 55 degrees at the base. Red labels show Fgy and Fw at the top, Fw and Fgy at the bottom with arrows for the force directions.


does this look correct?
No.
First, what is "Fgy"? The horizontal component of the gravitational force?!
Secondly, what force stops the ladder from slipping (until it does)?
 
haruspex said:
No.
First, what is "Fgy"? The horizontal component of the gravitational force?!
Secondly, what force stops the ladder from slipping (until it does)?
Force of the wall should equal force of friction.
 
Is the x-axis horizontal, and the y-axis vertical? I think, you mean Fg the force of gravity. It acts at the centre of mass of the ladder, not at the ends. What is its direction? What are the x and y components?

The normal force at the wall is not the same as the normal force from the ground.

And you completely ignored the force of friction at the ground.
 
ehild said:
Is the x-axis horizontal, and the y-axis vertical? I think, you mean Fg the force of gravity. It acts at the centre of mass of the ladder, not at the ends. What is its direction? What are the x and y components?

The normal force at the wall is not the same as the normal force from the ground.

And you completely ignored the force of friction at the ground.
mg = FN at the bottom of the ladder.

so Force of wall = force of friction since ladder doesn't move.

Fwall = Ffriction = μ FN = μ mg

torques : Torque of wall pushing ladder should equal torque of ladder at the center of mass.
let's pick the bottom of the ladder as the pivot point since the ladder doesn't move.
Fwall⋅ d ⋅sin 55.2 = mg ⋅ d/2 ⋅ cos 55.2

plugging in μ mg for Fwall

μ mg ⋅ d ⋅sin 55.2 = mg ⋅ d/2 ⋅ cos 55.2

canceling out mg and d from both sides, μ should come out to be 0.347