Arcing and conductivity and object interference

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the potential for electrical arcing between two points with humid ocean air and the role of insects, such as flies or mosquitoes, in this process. Participants consider whether the insects could be zapped, act as insulators, or trigger an arc under specific voltage conditions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that if a bug is large enough, it could get zapped, leading to a plasma arc that might pyrolyse the bug.
  • Others suggest that the bug's debris could sustain an arc until cleared, with a change in polarity potentially extinguishing it.
  • A participant mentions that bug zappers operate on smaller gaps than 10cm and attract insects using light.
  • There is a suggestion that achieving a voltage low enough to prevent arcing in air but high enough to trigger an arc when a bug passes through would be a delicate balance.
  • One participant expresses interest in building a high voltage racquet designed to zap insects without a metal mesh, indicating a desire for a more dangerous approach.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interaction between insects and electrical arcs, with no consensus on whether insects would act as insulators or trigger arcs. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specific conditions under which arcing would occur.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference the operation of bug zappers and the implications of insect size and environmental conditions, but the discussion does not resolve the underlying assumptions about voltage and arcing behavior.

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TL;DR
Trying to figure out if a bug coming between two points will create an electrical arc. Say two points with 10cm of air between them. Bug flies between the two high voltage points. Does it get zapped?
Im trying to figure out if I were to have two points with 10cm of humid ocean air between them and a fly or mosquitoes flew between the points, if they would get zapped and create an electrical arc, or if the bug would act as an insulator and be avoided by the arc?

also, could the bug trigger the arc? say There was not enough voltage to almost arc with only air between the points, then the bug flies through and gets zapped But the arc dies out once the bug tumbles away.

i Imagine that setting the voltage low enough to not start on its own but high enough to start when a tiny bug went between the two points would be a very delicate balance… right?

thanks In advance
 
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Welcome to PF.
omarcrysis said:
Im trying to figure out if I were to have two points with 10cm of humid ocean air between them and a fly or mosquitoes flew between the points, if they would get zapped and create an electrical arc, or if the bug would act as an insulator and be avoided by the arc?
If the bug was big enough, it would get zapped. The arc that follows is a plasma, that could largely pyrolyse the bug. The bug debris could hang around, and maintain an alternating arc, until the debris was cleared, and a change of polarity extinguished the arc.

Points have a continuous corona discharge that encourages breakdown, while the breakdown of the same width gap between spheres is far less likely.
 
omarcrysis said:
Im trying to figure out if I were to have two points with 10cm of humid ocean air between them and a fly or mosquitoes flew between the points, if they would get zapped and create an electrical arc, or if the bug would act as an insulator and be avoided by the arc?

also, could the bug trigger the arc? say There was not enough voltage to almost arc with only air between the points, then the bug flies through and gets zapped But the arc dies out once the bug tumbles away.

i Imagine that setting the voltage low enough to not start on its own but high enough to start when a tiny bug went between the two points would be a very delicate balance… right?

That's how some bug zappers work, but not with a 10cm gap. The High Voltage (HV) is applied across smaller gaps, and the bugs/flies are attracted with something like light. This is the bug zapper that I currently have running in my workshop:

1694106548273.png

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08T6672BY/?tag=pfamazon01-20

EDIT/ADD -- I looked inside my bug zapper and the spacing between the alternating HV electrodes looks to be about 1cm or a little less...
 
Last edited:
Baluncore said:
Welcome to PF.

If the bug was big enough, it would get zapped. The arc that follows is a plasma, that could largely pyrolyse the bug. The bug debris could hang around, and maintain an alternating arc, until the debris was cleared, and a change of polarity extinguished the arc.

Points have a continuous corona discharge that encourages breakdown, while the breakdown of the same width gap between spheres is far less likely.
Perfect! Thank you!
berkeman said:
That's how some bug zappers work, but not with a 10cm gap. The High Voltage (HV) is applied across smaller gaps, and the bugs/flies are attracted with something like light. This is the bug zapper that I currently have running in my workshop:

View attachment 331622
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08T6672BY/?tag=pfamazon01-20

EDIT/ADD -- I looked inside my bug zapper and the spacing between the alternating HV electrodes looks to be about 1cm or a little less...
yeah I was thinking of trying to build a high voltage racquet but with no metal mesh. You know, so that any mosquito that flies in will just get zapped out of thin air.

Same as a mosquito racquet but cooler and way more dangerous
 
omarcrysis said:
and way more dangerous
And we have a prohibition against dangerous discussions here at PF, so this thread is now closed. Have a nice day.
 
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