Are American College Students Overestimating Their Abilities?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the perceptions of American college students regarding their abilities and self-esteem, particularly in relation to academic performance. It explores the implications of self-confidence and the so-called "self-esteem movement," touching on various viewpoints about its effects on students' actual capabilities and success in educational settings.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note a correlation between self-confidence and academic performance, suggesting that increased confidence may not necessarily reflect actual ability.
  • One participant references the "Lake Wobegon effect," implying that individuals often overestimate their abilities compared to others.
  • Concerns are raised about the clarity of the article's arguments regarding self-esteem and success, with some participants expressing confusion over the causal relationships discussed.
  • Several participants reference comedian George Carlin's critique of the self-esteem movement, arguing that boosting self-esteem does not equate to actual ability or success.
  • There is a suggestion that excessive confidence without corresponding effort may lead to poor academic outcomes, as overconfident individuals may not adequately prepare for challenges.
  • One participant emphasizes the need for a balance between confidence and recognition of one's limitations, arguing that inflated self-perceptions can lead to unrealistic expectations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the relationship between self-esteem and academic performance, with no clear consensus on whether the self-esteem movement is beneficial or detrimental. Some agree on the superficiality of confidence, while others question the implications of self-perception on actual performance.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of the relationship between self-esteem, confidence, and academic success, noting that the direction of causation is often unclear and dependent on individual circumstances.

tahayassen
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American college students are increasingly likely to describe themselves as "gifted"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20756247

Well, I'm an undergraduate freshman and I would say I'm above average (relative to all 18 year olds in Canada). I would also say I'm above average (relative to my peers in my classes at uni because I've revamped my work habits recently). About a year ago, I would say that I was below average (relative to the smart students in my university classes in high school). I think it's just a coincidence that there's a correlation between confidence and how well you do in school. I think decrease in academic ability has to do with the number of distractions readily available these days - we're in a post-productivity age.
 
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The article is confusing.

"What's really become prevalent over the last two decades is the idea that being highly self-confident - loving yourself, believing in yourself - is the key to success.

"Now the interesting thing about that belief is it's widely held, it's very deeply held, and it's also untrue."

Then later:

He found that although high self-esteem frequently had a positive correlation with success, the direction of causation was often unclear. For example, are high marks awarded to people with high self-esteem or does getting high marks engender high self-esteem?

I'm not sure what point is being made at all.
 


zoobyshoe said:
The article is confusing.
That's strange, because William Kremer told me he was better than most journalists.
 


The great George Carlin did a brilliant bit on the absurdity of the so called self - esteem movement that zooby quoted from the article. I can't link it here as it contains many obscenities but you can easily find it on youtube if you're interested.
 


WannabeNewton said:
The great George Carlin did a brilliant bit on the absurdity of the so called self - esteem movement that zooby quoted from the article. I can't link it here as it contains many obscenities but you can easily find it on youtube if you're interested.

According to Wikipedia, he's a comedian.
 


tahayassen said:
According to Wikipedia, he's a comedian.
Yeah so?
 


WannabeNewton said:
Yeah so?

I started this thread with the intention of a semi-serious discussion. Typically, comedians stretch the truth or exaggerate something for comedic purposes. I watched it by the way, pretty funny.
 


tahayassen said:
I started this thread with the intention of a semi-serious discussion. Typically, comedians stretch the truth or exaggerate something for comedic purposes. I watched it by the way, pretty funny.
Carlin isn't a typical comedian IMO; he is almost always right on the money. I agree with his views on this in particular because I find that boosting self - esteem and confidence is all surface level and it is a meaningless tactic that doesn't prove anything about ability in the long run.
 
  • #10


WannabeNewton said:
Carlin isn't a typical comedian IMO; he is almost always right on the money. I agree with his views on this in particular because I find that boosting self - esteem and confidence is all surface level and it is a meaningless tactic that doesn't prove anything about ability in the long run.

Would you say that the movement would hurt academic performance?

zoobyshoe said:
The article is confusing.
Then later:
I'm not sure what point is being made at all.

Yeah, I'm not sure why that second quote was in the article there.
 
  • #11


WannabeNewton said:
Carlin isn't a typical comedian IMO; he is almost always right on the money.

Much like Bill Maher. ;)
 
  • #12


WannabeNewton said:
Carlin isn't a typical comedian IMO; he is almost always right on the money. I agree with his views on this in particular because I find that boosting self - esteem and confidence is all surface level and it is a meaningless tactic that doesn't prove anything about ability in the long run.
Yeah, Carlin says it as it is.
 
  • #13


tahayassen said:
Would you say that the movement would hurt academic performance?
Well if a person gets too confident in him/herself there is always the threat of being kicked in the face by reality and the owing up the fact that simply boosting one's self confidence or esteem will not guarantee a good grade on an exam. If the over - confidence is supplemented with hard work then I'm sure that problem won't be there but over confident people don't in general doubt their "superior" abilities enough to study substantially.
 
  • #14


Evo said:
Yeah, Carlin says it as it is.
Not any more.
 
  • #15


zoobyshoe said:
Not any more.

:frown:
 
  • #16


Imagination is often bigger than the reality of the person dreaming of it. Don't let it consume you to the point you are walking around so delusional that you think everything you touch is gold, and everything you say is the objective truth.
 
  • #17


lisab said:
:frown:
What can I say? She used the present tense!
 
  • #18


zoobyshoe said:
What can I say? She used the present tense!
George Carlin will always be alive!
 
  • #19


http://psycnet.apa.org/?&fa=main.doiLanding&doi=10.1037/0022-3514.77.6.1121
 
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  • #20


Mentalist said:
Imagination is often bigger than the reality of the person dreaming of it. Don't let it consume you to the point you are walking around so delusional that you think everything you touch is gold, and everything you say is the objective truth.

Very well said. Confidence is good when it enables you to put your best foot forward w/o fear of failing. But when it instills a sense of inherent superiority in a person, they often fall on their face since they are not as gifted as they think. I feel that confidence is good to a limited extent, but individuals must understand that extra confidence cannot make up for a lack of natural talent nor lack of effort.

Claude
 

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