Why do we spend so little time learning grammar in college?

[Mark44]

May be it isn't Slavic, but I think it is classified as such.

Wikipedia says this:

Bulgarian is an Eastern South Slavic language spoken in Southeast Europe, primarily in Bulgaria. It is the language of the Bulgarians.

Along with the closely relatedMacedonian language (collectively forming the East South Slavic languages), it is a member of the Balkan sprachbund and South Slavic dialect continuum of the Indo-European language family. The two languages have several characteristics that set them apart from all other Slavic languages, including the elimination of case declension, the development of a suffixed definite article, and the lack of a verb infinitive. They retain and have further developed the Proto-Slavic verb system (albeit analytically). One such major development is the innovation of evidential verb forms to encode for the source of information: witnessed, inferred, or reported.

The lack of case declension was a surprise to me.

 

[mathwonk]

In my case, "I am older than dirt" seems more accurate, (or for purists, perhaps "I am older than dirt is"?) But probably both make the point.

 

[sevensages]

You make a good point, I am embarrassed to say.

I initially said that your sentence above is a comma splice. Your above sentence is not a comma splice. The moderator Alan at englishclub.com knows more about English grammar than anyone on the face of the Earth, including you or me. I asked Alan at the englishclub.com about your example sentence, and Alan told me that it is not a comma splice.

 

[DaveC426913]

I initially said that your sentence above is a comma splice. Your above sentence is not a comma splice. The moderator Alan at englishclub.com knows more about English grammar than anyone on the face of the Earth, including you or me. I asked Alan at the englishclub.com about your example sentence, and Alan told me that it is not a comma splice.

All right. I'll take that as a concession.

 

[sevensages]

All right. I'll take that as a concession.

If Alan says that it's not a comma splice, then it's not a comma splice.

 

[DaveC426913]

If Alan says that it's not a comma splice, then it's not a comma splice.

You are conceding that I am - and was - correct, are you not?

 

[sevensages]

You are conceding that I am - and was - correct, are you not?

I am conceding that you are and were correct that what you wrote in post #68 is not a comma splice.

I still disagree with your idea that universities should not require undergraduates to take courses on English grammar in order to get a Bachelor's Degree.

 

[vela]

If Alan says that it's not a comma splice, then it's not a comma splice.

It's more convincing to note that Dave's sentence could have been rewritten as "I am embarrassed to say you make a good point."

 

[DaveC426913]

I am conceding that you are and were correct that what you wrote in post #68 is not a comma splice.

Ok well that was the point of contention.

I still disagree with your idea that universities should not require undergraduates to take courses on English grammar in order to get a Bachelor's Degree.

I'm not sure that's my idea. Are you sure I said that?

 

[symbolipoint]

Nothing is stopping anyone from studying Grammar on his own, from any good instruction book of his choosing.

 

[sevensages]

I'm not sure that's my idea. Are you sure I said that?

You certainly implied that that is your idea on post #8 on this thread and several other posts on this thread.

My thesis is that universities should mandate that students take courses on English grammar in order to get a Bachelor's Degree. You responded "Isn't that what grade school is for? Why waste time in uni on the basics?"

Why did you write that if you agree with my thesis?

 

[DaveC426913]

You certainly implied that that is your idea on post #8 on this thread and several other posts on this thread.

My thesis is that universities should mandate that students take courses on English grammar in order to get a Bachelor's Degree. You responded "Isn't that what grade school is for? Why waste time in uni on the basics?"

Why did you write that if you agree with my thesis?

Well it's just that you've phrased both in terms of your own thinking. I'm trying to tease out of that whether they're mutually exclusive and comprehensive.

I'm OK with you and I having different opinions on where and when grammar should be taught. I'm not OK with sniping about the facts of grammar use when I'm not wrong. But that's put to bed now.

So carry on.

 

[Averagesupernova]

I'm OK with you and I having different opinions on where and when grammar should be taught.

Lol. I'm not ok with it. How far do we let it slide? Soon no one will be able to spell upon graduation? That's bad enough already. It makes no sense to have students who are math experts and can't put together a sentence that is understandable when they graduate high school. I don't believe anyone here has said we should do this, just my 2¢.
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The gal in my graduating class who was runner up for valedictorian was at a reunion a few years back. Obviously not every student shows up. She gave a percentage of total students that showed up and then admitted she had to do a Google search to figure out how to arrive at the percentage. Pretty sure the advanced classes she took didn't do her any good. For those of you wondering what the point of that little story is, it is that there is plenty that is taught in high school that just as well be pushed to university since I doubt my classmate remembers any algebra or trig, etc if she couldn't figure out what percent 30 out of 75 is without Google. Teach the basics prior to university. Let the students take advanced stuff in university. Basic grammar should be considered basics. Btw, that classmate is a dentist now.

 

[DaveC426913]

Lol. I'm not ok with it. How far do we let it slide?

I didn't say I agree. I merely said I don't take umbrage with the OP having his own opinion. (By contrast, I did take umbrage with being told I got a grammar issue wrong. But that's resolved now.)

 

[martinbn]

It makes no sense to have students who are math experts and can't put together a sentence that is understandable when they graduate high school.

Is that possible! How many math experts do you know that cannot put together a sentence?

 

[symbolipoint]

@sevensages asked if universities should require students to take a mandatory Grammar course. My vote is no.

The students will have had likely sufficient instruction on Grammar and Usage before reaching admission to a university. They also have plenty of opportunity to refine and review their familiarity with Grammar. They also have the responsibility to manage their Grammar and Usage, increasingly well in their courses.

 

[Averagesupernova]

Is that possible! How many math experts do you know that cannot put together a sentence?

The point is maybe we should ditch some more advanced type courses and concentrate on the basics in high school and grade school. People who won't utilize the math (for instance) after high school are going to forget it anyway. It just seems silly to educate kids on stuff they intend to forget. The USA requires four years of English in high school. As far as I know the only subject that requires four years. And yet kids out of high school sound and write as if they "ain't got no good book learnin". Having advanced subjects available is one thing. Turning out kids who don't have a basic education while having taken advanced courses is quite another. Something is broken.

 

[Averagesupernova]

I welcome other opinions for a solution. My idea may sound like "they don't learn it so why bother". That is not the case.