Schools Are big name schools really that different?

[Mépris]

^
I'm no expert, but the gist of it is it doesn't really matter whether you're doing maths at Trinity or elsewhere. If I'm not wrong, you will have different people in the tutorials depending on which college you are in, but every student will take classes together.

Make sure your son achieves as many A*s as he can, and that he takes further maths (at least AS-Level - many colleges will require A2 though, there's a list on the website, including what subjects they'd rather see; for e.g, physics or history v/s media or business), and that he does brilliantly on the STEP papers he has to take. There's a different set for those taking further maths.

I also recommend watching the *mock interviews* that Emmanuel College, Cambridge has on their website. Google.

I recall seeing some threads on The Student Room where they help with STEP. Make sure you don't get sucked in. Among the useful posts, there are many that come from anxious and/or insecure kids.

An old poster here, who I think teaches computer science at Bristol now, went to Cambridge for maths - his username is matt_grime I believe. He posted in mathwonk's "who wants to be a mathematician?" thread, in the earlier pages.

I don't think American colleges are worth the money for most UK/EU students. It depends on what his priorities are, and in this case, it's mathematics. He doesn't need to apply to any of the top colleges. If you're not poor (financial aid), you will end up spending ridiculous amounts of money for a regular bachelor's degree. That said, if he wants to attend a certain school, he should apply by all means. But when you have the excellent UK student loans, why bother go through the tedious process of applying to school in the US when you can just go to UCL, King's, Endinburgh, Oxbridge, etc? All you need is a short written statement, a couple of As-A*s and sometimes, an interview, which is entirely academic. It is as straightforward as it gets.

If your son doesn't get into Oxbridge or his desired school in the UK, and wants to study in XYZ European city that he loves for whatever reason, he can just learn the language and apply there. Munich? Vienna? Zurich? Paris? With 3 A-Levels and 1 AS or 4 A-Levels, it's as straightforward as it gets there too. That said, the French are weird, and it would appear that the grandes ecoles are where it's at. That is not to say that people who go to regular universities can't make it. Grothendieck did it. Others have.

Note that I'm only about to start university myself, so take that into account while reading my post.

 

[cdux]

Sometimes simply the "harshness" of marking is a big difference. e.g. now I'm dealing with a module that accepts nothing but strict rigorous mathematics. This is exceptionally difficult to get comfortable with especially in a course that is mainly about Engineering (and those mainly deal with methodologies and their application, rather than strict math). But.. due to this I guess I have to learn mathematical rigour or else.

 

[RabbitWho]

Well I sure hope it's not important because I'm studying with UNED.

 

[IGU]

Make sure your son achieves as many A*s as he can, and that he takes further maths ..., and that he does brilliantly on the STEP papers he has to take.

Sorry, I didn't make it clear. I'm in the US. My son is home schooled. No further maths or official classes at all (although he's audited some math classes at local universities). He mostly just learns math on his own. He hasn't taken STEP. Will that be a problem?

I'm most curious whether Cambridge is the right place to be for a total math kid who's quite good. Is it a "top school" for undergraduates in mathwonk's sense, and particularly suited to students who just want to do mathematics? Perhaps it's better than Harvard because at Harvard he could take Math 55 but he'd also have to take a bunch of things he isn't interested in and won't do.

 

[AlephZero]

My son is home schooled. No further maths or official classes at all (although he's audited some math classes at local universities). He mostly just learns math on his own. He hasn't taken STEP. Will that be a problem?

He will certainly have to produce some hard evidence of what he knows...

I'm most curious whether Cambridge is the right place to be for a total math kid who's quite good.

... and if he's only "quite good", he probably won't stand a chance anyway. In terms of UK qualifications, he woulld probably need straight A (or better, A*) grades to be a serious candidate.

Get in touch with the Admissions Office at Cambridge for advice on how to proceed: http://www.admin.cam.ac.uk/offices/admissions/

 

[hsetennis]

Sorry, I didn't make it clear. I'm in the US. My son is home schooled. No further maths or official classes at all (although he's audited some math classes at local universities). He mostly just learns math on his own. He hasn't taken STEP. Will that be a problem?

I'm most curious whether Cambridge is the right place to be for a total math kid who's quite good. Is it a "top school" for undergraduates in mathwonk's sense, and particularly suited to students who just want to do mathematics? Perhaps it's better than Harvard because at Harvard he could take Math 55 but he'd also have to take a bunch of things he isn't interested in and won't do.

I don't know if homeschooled students can do it, but international high school credentials (such as IB or something similar) will help when applying to Cambridge.

 

[RabbitWho]

I know in Ireland it wouldn't matter what school you went to as long as you have the same qualification as everyone else (some kind of school leaving exam).

But I was surprised when I applied for university in Spain that I had to had all my grades from high school.. They don't do that in Ireland and I had never made any effort whatsoever in school tests, which weren't taken seriously at all. The focus was very much on the Leaving Certificate, which anyone can sit even if they haven't been through high school (assuming they have studied for it, of course).

So it must be different in every country. In Spain I imagine it's very difficult for a home schooled kid to get into university.
There has to be a way though, there are home schooled kids in every country and you can't just leave some of the potentially best educated kids you have out in the cold because of paperwork.

 

[Mépris]

Sorry, I didn't make it clear. I'm in the US. My son is home schooled. No further maths or official classes at all (although he's audited some math classes at local universities). He mostly just learns math on his own. He hasn't taken STEP. Will that be a problem?

I'm most curious whether Cambridge is the right place to be for a total math kid who's quite good. Is it a "top school" for undergraduates in mathwonk's sense, and particularly suited to students who just want to do mathematics? Perhaps it's better than Harvard because at Harvard he could take Math 55 but he'd also have to take a bunch of things he isn't interested in and won't do.

Make a Google search for "Cambridge university home school". Refer to Aleph's post.

I can't speak for how well suited it would be for anyone, as I haven't been there myself. All I can say is that I've looked at their syllabus for the maths program a while back, and it is certainly intense.

I cannot say much about math 51 either, other than it being a bulky course. Much has been said about the course here on the forums. Mathwonk has written about it in his thread and elsewhere, I believe.

I recall that they require 4-5 AP courses (of course, he should do calculus!) with grades of 4 or 5. I don't know how they will use those grades, as A2 mathematics and further mathematics cover more material than AP calculus (complex numbers, differential equations, mechanics and/or statistics, some linear algebra too I think), but I have a feeling that he will need to do brilliantly at the interview. It would be much more straightforward to get into other great UK schools like Warwick, UCL, Imperial or King's, as they do not usually have an interview process. That said, I think that the AP exams are required in addition to an American high school diploma and the SAT reasoning test.

If your son wants to do maths and just maths, European universities are a good bet. Germany, Belgium, Switzerland, UK, Netherlands...3 year bachelor's too. General, the academic level is high, and entry is quite straightforward. i.e, proficiency in language and so and so grades achieved. I am not sure how AP exams are treated in other European countries. You will need to look that up. And outside the UK, European universities *tend* to be of a similar quality. So, apparently, it won't matter too much if one's bachelor's is from Munich, Zurich, Leuven, or Dresden.

Whereas in the US, studying at a flagship state U like Michigan is probably a better idea than studying at even a top liberal arts college like Williams, simply because the latter has a limited course offering. That said, at a smaller school, it may be easier to get research opportunities (but limited research areas, because of smaller faculty) than at a bigger school. But if you want more maths and less everything else, Europe (or a school with loose requirements like Brown) is a better option.

If your son wants to attend a top US university, he will need some kind of distinguishing trait (for e.g: writing a best selling book in a niche subject or co-author of some papers). Look up Cal Newport's "How to be a High School Superstar". I gather that the more impressive the applicant sounds, the higher the odds of him getting in *somewhere* in the top schools. But again, if one is going to try to be impressive just to get into a school, odds are one won't be too happy trying to be impressive, and odds are one won't end up doing something that is all that impressive anyway!

At least, this just my opinion. I will stop here, as I think others have tackled this very question far too many times already, and many of them are better qualified than me (former students, admissions officers, counselors, professors, etc) to write about this. Some have written books on the subject, i.e, Cal Newport.

Anyway, I think you should make another thread if you have further questions.

 

[serllus reuel]

This isn't related to what has just been posted, more of a general question.

So there are the "state schools" and the ivy league/stanford/mit, etc. But what about schools that have an average undergrad program but are top notch in a particular subject?

Exampe: UC Santa Barbara, 50% acceptance rate, okay ranking, physics department top 10 in the world. Considering I live in California, I'd be very happy there if I can't get into anywhere else.

 

[rdrewd]

"Where any person can pursue the study of any subject..."

There are lots of reasons for picking one school over another school. It'd be a shame to just look at big name schools and ignore other selection criteria. My undergraduate degree is from Cornell U. in Ithaca, NY. It's an interesting mix of a school - partially an Ivy League school, partially a NY State school. The University's motto is attributed to its founder, Ezra Cornell. "I would found a University where any person can pursue the study of any subject". The punchline that goes with the joke version of that is "But Ezra. Everybody will want to go there." "Uh-uh. I haven't told you yet where I'm going to put it.". It is in a decidedly rural area, 30 miles from the nearest Interstate highway. If you hunger for bright lights in a big city, Ithaca isn't the place to look. If you aren't quite sure exactly what field you want to pursue, the diversity of the offerings at Cornell may well make it worth considering. Top quality libraries, notable levels of financial aid, talented students, remarkably rich thick course catalogs, with professors that do indeed know their stuff. Dress for the weather and take advantage of the place, but be prepared to work hard.

On the flip side, my daughter wanted to go to school in a place where she could pursue internships in the financial industry. She opted for Columbia U. in NYC, worked hard to take advantage of the metropolitan location and did fine, despite the misfortune of graduating at a low ebb time for the financial industry. Clearly for her, Ithaca wasn't a good match to what she was seeking.