Are electronic transitions a result of a single photon?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of electronic transitions in relation to photon interactions, specifically whether these transitions typically involve a single photon or if other processes, such as two-photon interactions, can also occur. The scope includes theoretical aspects of quantum mechanics and photon behavior.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that electronic transitions are most commonly single photon transitions, while others note that two-photon and multiphoton processes, such as Raman scattering, also exist.
  • A question is raised about whether the amplitude of a photon is a function of hf, leading to a clarification that amplitude is a classical wave property and does not apply to photons in the same way.
  • One participant emphasizes that the number of photons does not equate to frequency, suggesting a misunderstanding of quantum phenomena when viewed through a classical lens.
  • Another participant provides resources for further reading, indicating that understanding photons requires knowledge beyond basic high school concepts and involves quantum field theory.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of quantum mechanics on locality and the nature of particles as excitations of quantum fields.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between photon properties and electronic transitions, with no consensus reached on the nature of amplitude and its relation to photon interactions. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the interpretation of photon behavior in quantum mechanics.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the potential misunderstanding of quantum phenomena through classical models, and the discussion touches on advanced concepts that may not be accessible without prior knowledge of quantum mechanics and field theory.

Maurice Morelock
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TL;DR
E=hf, where f is the number of waves (each with h energy) passing a point in one sec.

Electronic transitions occur in a small fraction of a sec.

So for electronic excitation, are we talking about a single photon wave with an amplitude of hf?
E=hf
 
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Is the amplitude of the photon a function of hf?
 
Maurice Morelock said:
Is the amplitude of the photon a function of hf?
Amplitude is a property of a classical wave. A photon is a quantum "particle of light", and does not have a property called "amplitude". Roughly, the amplitude of the classical wave corresponds to the number of photons.
 
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This is a beginner thread. The following is at the I level, but hopefully, you can glean a general idea of what is going on beyond basic HS textbooks and popularisations:
http://www.physics.usu.edu/torre/3700_Spring_2015/What_is_a_photon.pdf

When you come here for an answer, we give you the real deal, which unfortunately often requires more advanced knowledge to understand. This is one of those cases. Fingers crossed, you can still get something from it.

In fact, all particles, not just photons, are 'excitations' of an underlying quantum field (one for each particle) that pervades all space. At the elementary level, Rodney Brooks explains it here:
https://www.quantum-field-theory.net/

Or if you want to read a paper::
https://arxiv.org/pdf/1710.10291.pdf

But again, subtleties are going on Rodney, correctly at the beginner level, does not go into, e.g.:
https://cds.cern.ch/record/372369/files/9811072.pdf

Basically, QM violates outcome independence but not parameter independence. It needs to violate both to be non-local. For example, two particles can be in a state that is not two separate particles but a holistic single entity. It is subtle, but this is different from locality, as explained in the paper. We all have to start somewhere, and viewing QM as a quantum field is as good a place as any. And likely better than most.

Aso these days Schwingers Source Theory is seen as a precursor to Wilsons view of QFT that he won a Nobel Prize for:
https://quantumfrontiers.com/2013/06/18/we-are-all-wilsonians-now/

Thanks
Bill
 
Last edited:
atyy said:
Amplitude is a property of a classical wave. A photon is a quantum "particle of light", and does not have a property called "amplitude". Roughly, the amplitude of the classical wave corresponds to the number of photons.
Agreed, but is the number for the “packet” of photons = f?
 
Maurice Morelock said:
Agreed, but is the number for the “packet” of photons = f?
No. Photon number is not frequency.

You are trying to understand a quantum phenomenon with a classical model. That won't work.
 
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