Are Electrons Photons Stuck in Atom's Nucleus?

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    Electrons Photons
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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the relationship between electrons and photons, specifically questioning whether electrons could be considered as photons that are trapped in the nucleus of an atom. It touches on concepts of particle behavior, quantum mechanics, and the nature of atomic structure.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that electrons might be viewed as photons trapped in an atom's nucleus, citing similarities in their wave-like behavior and interactions with energy.
  • Others argue against this idea, highlighting fundamental differences between photons and electrons, such as the fact that electrons do not orbit the nucleus and are not attracted to it in the same way photons are not attracted to anything.
  • One participant mentions that high-energy photons can produce electron-positron pairs, prompting questions about the mechanisms behind this process.
  • Another participant clarifies that in quantum mechanics, electrons exist in stationary states where their probability distribution does not change over time, complicating the notion of their movement around the nucleus.
  • There is discussion about the concept of motion in quantum mechanics, with some suggesting that while stationary states do not define trajectory, non-stationary wave packets can be analyzed in terms of classical velocity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the nature of electrons and photons, with no consensus reached on whether electrons can be considered as photons or how to describe their movement around the nucleus.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the reliance on interpretations of quantum mechanics and the ambiguity surrounding the definitions of motion and trajectory in this context.

nuby
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Are electrons actually just photons that are stuck in the orbit of an atom's nucleus?

Both photons and electrons are considered wave like particles, both are attracted to the nucleus of an atom, when an atom absorbs a photons energy it interacts with electrons,

Would a photon under centripetal force have more mass, like electrons?
 
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nuby said:
Are electrons actually just photons
No. There are several differences between photons and electrons, though high energy photons can produce an electron and positron.

that are stuck in the orbit of an atom's nucleus?
Electrons DO NOT ORBIT the nucleus. If they orbited, the acceleration of the charge would produce photons making the electrons lose energy and fall to the nucleus.
 
nuby said:
Are electrons actually just photons that are stuck in the orbit of an atom's nucleus?
Not at all. Why do they give them a different name, then? Do you think that they wouldn't have noticed in almost a century? And what about electrons outside the atom?
Both photons and electrons are considered wave like particles, both are attracted to the nucleus of an atom
Not at all, photons are NOT attracted to the nucleus, they are not attracted to anything.
, when an atom absorbs a photons energy it interacts with electrons,

Would a photon under centripetal force have more mass, like electrons?
A photon cannot be under centripetal force but nontheless can be confined inside a finite region of space; then that region of space do really acquire a mass, equal to E/c^2 where E = photon's energy.
 
yourdadonapogostick said:
No. There are several differences between photons and electrons, though high energy photons can produce an electron and positron.

Electrons DO NOT ORBIT the nucleus. If they orbited, the acceleration of the charge would produce photons making the electrons lose energy and fall to the nucleus.
Interesting ... How does a high energy photon create an electron and positron, do you have a link?How would you describe an electrons movement around an atoms nucleus? (in 2 sentences)
 
nuby said:
How would you describe an electrons movement around an atoms nucleus? (in 2 sentences)

The electrons are in stationary states --- there is no change in their probability distribution with time. Motion, especially trajectory, is not a defined concept in quantum mechanics.
 
genneth said:
Motion, especially trajectory, is not a defined concept in quantum mechanics.

At least not for a stationary state. For something like a non-stationary wave packet, you can think of d<x>/dt as corresponding to the classical velocity. I think I remember once calculating m d<x>/dt and <p> explicitly for a Gaussian wave packet to show that they're the same.

But even that only describes the motion of the packet as a whole, not the "actual" motion of the particle "inside" the packet.
 

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