Are Galaxies Gravitationally Bound?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the criteria and methods for determining whether galaxies are gravitationally bound to one another, particularly in the context of galaxy clusters. Participants explore various observational techniques and theoretical considerations related to galaxy dynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that the mass of each galaxy in a cluster is crucial for determining gravitational binding, and inquire about specific equations or measurements related to galaxy velocities.
  • Observational methods such as optical, infrared, X-ray, radio, and gravitational lensing are mentioned as techniques used to study galaxy clusters and their binding status.
  • One participant proposes that the persistence of galaxies over time implies they are gravitationally bound, as their disintegration would occur much faster than the age of the Universe.
  • Another participant challenges the relevance of focusing on individual galaxy stability when the original question pertains to the binding of multiple galaxies within a cluster.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of gravity on the clustering of galaxies, with some arguing that without gravitational binding, clusters would not exist to begin with.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relevance of certain arguments, particularly regarding the focus on individual galaxies versus clusters. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing perspectives on how to assess gravitational binding among galaxies.

Contextual Notes

Some arguments rely on assumptions about the nature of gravitational binding and the definitions of clusters, which may not be universally agreed upon. There are also unresolved mathematical steps related to the calculations of escape velocities and the implications of dark matter.

nmsurobert
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How do we know if galaxies are gravitationally bound?

I'm guessing it obviously has something to do with the mass of each galaxy in the cluster, but is there an equation that is used to determine when they are bound to each other? Is there some kind of measurement made regarding the velocity of the galaxy?

Thanks.
 
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nmsurobert said:
How do we know if galaxies are gravitationally bound?

I'm guessing it obviously has something to do with the mass of each galaxy in the cluster, but is there an equation that is used to determine when they are bound to each other? Is there some kind of measurement made regarding the velocity of the galaxy?
typing your Q into google got this from Wiki ...

Observational methods[edit]
220px-Galaxy_Cluster_LCDCS-0829.jpg

Galaxy Cluster LCDCS-0829 acting like a giant magnifying glass. This strange effect is called gravitational lensing.
Clusters of galaxies have been found in surveys by a number of observational techniques and have been studied in detail using many methods:

  • Optical or infrared: The individual galaxies of clusters can be studied through optical or infrared imaging and spectroscopy. Galaxy clusters are found by optical or infrared telescopes by searching for overdensities, and then confirmed by finding several galaxies at a similar redshift. Infrared searches are more useful for finding more distant (higher redshift) clusters.
  • X-ray: The hot plasma emits X-rays that can be detected by X-ray telescopes. The cluster gas can be studied using both X-ray imaging and X-ray spectroscopy. Clusters are quite prominent in X-ray surveys and along with AGN are the brightest X-ray emitting extragalactic objects.
  • Radio: A number of diffuse structures emitting at radio frequencies have been found in clusters. Groups of radio sources (that may include diffuse structures or AGN) have been used as tracers of cluster location. At high redshift imaging around individual radio sources (in this case AGN) has been used to detect proto-clusters (clusters in the process of forming).
  • Sunyaev-Zel'dovich effect: The hot electrons in the intracluster medium scatter radiation from the cosmic microwave background through inverse Compton scattering. This produces a "shadow" in the observed cosmic microwave background at some radio frequencies.
  • Gravitational lensing: Clusters of galaxies contain enough matter to distort the observed orientations of galaxies behind them. The observed distortions can be used to model the distribution of dark matter in the cluster.
 
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davenn said:
typing your Q into google got this from Wiki ...
Ah awesome. I tried googling some answers but I couldn't find anything. Thanks.
 
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nmsurobert said:
Ah awesome. I tried googling some answers but I couldn't find anything. Thanks.
did that give you the answer you were after ?
 
davenn said:
did that give you the answer you were after ?

yeah... to an extent. it'll do though.

I teach a high school astro class. while i was setting up an assignment i could already hear a couple of my students asking what i asked lol.
 
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nmsurobert said:
How do we know if galaxies are gravitationally bound?
One can address that issue by working out how long it would take a galaxy to fall apart if it was not gravitationally bound. One finds for most galaxies a time much less than the age of the Universe. Since galaxies can be seen over most of the age of the Universe, one concludes that their persistence means that they are gravitationally bound.
 
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lpetrich said:
One can address that issue by working out how long it would take a galaxy to fall apart if it was not gravitationally bound. One finds for most galaxies a time much less than the age of the Universe. Since galaxies can be seen over most of the age of the Universe, one concludes that their persistence means that they are gravitationally bound.

Did you actually read the OP ?

It is about 2 or more galaxies being gravitationally bound to each other, not gravity within a particular galaxy

so this comment of yours is totally irrelevant ...

One can address that issue by working out how long it would take a galaxy to fall apart if it was not gravitationally bound.
Dave
 
The same argument applies for galaxies in a cluster. In the absence of gravity, how long would it be before the clustered galaxies disperse?
 
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lpetrich said:
In the absence of gravity, how long would it be before the clustered galaxies disperse?
that doesn't really make sense, because if they weren't gravitationally bound, there would be no cluster, to start with, to disperse
 
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This thread has answers, let's tie it off at this point. Thanks everyone.
 
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