Are Intelligent, Socially Awkward Males Unsuccessful w/ Women?

[GeorginaS]

While i don't necessarily agree my posts are incoherent, i do accept that i was overly aggressive and out of line in my response. my basic point was basically that nerdy guys tend to obsess over one or a few women and usually before they've met them due to being too nervous to go talk. I'm not saying being shallow is inherently bad, i just think that being shallow and too nervous to talk are the main problems for most of us nerdy boys.

I'll go with Chris' suspicion and ask you what you mean by the word "shallow". Because what you just wrote -- which was entirely clear -- suggests that maybe you mean the word "shy" rather than shallow.

But anyway, that obsessing happens to everyone. Or most people, I'd say, about an awful lot of situations. Someone's important to you so you rehearse over and over in your head what you might say, would like to say, how you could approach, when would be a good time. You run various scenarios in circles in your mind, "If I say this, would she say that? Or that? And then what?" And on and on and on. And you can drive yourself bonkers with that stuff. And just about everyone I know -- geeky or not -- does it.

Here's a hint: it doesn't help. The biggest help I've found is to ask myself, "What's the absolute worst thing that can happen?" If it doesn't entail me dropping dead on the spot, then the only thing to do is do the thing. Yes, your knees feel like rubber, and yes, your voice promptly leaves you and all you can manage to do is squeak, and the outcome may not be what you'd hoped for or anticipated. But at least you did it. That accomplishment in itself feels great and makes each successive try easier because you've discovered one thing for certain and that's that you won't drop dead on the spot.

i was out of line. i apologize.

That was really big of you. Thank you.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

I'll go with Chris' suspicion and ask you what you mean by the word "shallow". Because what you just wrote -- which was entirely clear -- suggests that maybe you mean the word "shy" rather than shallow.

But anyway, that obsessing happens to everyone. Or most people, I'd say, about an awful lot of situations. Someone's important to you so you rehearse over and over in your head what you might say, would like to say, how you could approach, when would be a good time. You run various scenarios in circles in your mind, "If I say this, would she say that? Or that? And then what?" And on and on and on. And you can drive yourself bonkers with that stuff. And just about everyone I know -- geeky or not -- does it.

There are people who are just plain "shy" and have trouble talking to anyone they do not know, and sometimes even people that they do know. Most guys though are "shy" around women in particular, especially the ones they find attractive (I am sure the same goes for many women as well).

Your second paragraph really points out the issue. "Someone's important to you so..." Certainly it makes sense that if you place a high value on your interaction with that person, and their perception of you, that you will be nervous and/or shy. There is a sense of risk, that you may lose something, if things go wrong. But one might ask themselves why it is that they place such importance on this person and their response and what it is one may potentially lose. If you have never spoken to this person before and know little to nothing about them why are they important and what could you conceivably lose? AUK's position seems to be that you are evaluating that person's import based on looks and that what one might be losing is really nothing more than the opportunity to date a "hot chick/stud". By this hypothesis one is shy with pretty ladies because one has placed a high value on their person for superficial reasons, which would constitute "shallow". If one were to refrain from "judging the book by its cover", to borrow from Dave, then one may find that they are no longer shy with that person. Hence "Intelligent, Socially Awkward Males [Are] Unsuccessful [With] Women Due to Being Shallow", because if they were to refrain from placing a higher value on women because of their looks they would be less shy with them and more capable of speaking to them.

 

[AUK 1138]

I'll go with Chris' suspicion and ask you what you mean by the word "shallow". Because what you just wrote -- which was entirely clear -- suggests that maybe you mean the word "shy" rather than shallow.

That is basically my point. I'm saying that being "shy" with women stems from being shallow. by shallow i mean placing a value on looks or observed interactions of a person as opposed to actually talking to and getting to know the individual. that is what i consider to be an extrapolation of the word "shallow" and therefore serves as the basis for me making this thread.


TheStatutoryApe pretty much nailed my point. you can look at what i wrote and what he wrote and use them to make sense of what I'm saying if i was too difficult.

 

[creepypasta13]

intelligent, socially awkward men are definitely looked down upon harshly by society.

 

[Phrak]

That is basically my point. I'm saying that being "shy" with women stems from being shallow. by shallow i mean placing a value on looks or observed interactions of a person as opposed to actually talking to and getting to know the individual. that is what i consider to be an extrapolation of the word "shallow" and therefore serves as the basis for me making this thread.


TheStatutoryApe pretty much nailed my point. you can look at what i wrote and what he wrote and use them to make sense of what I'm saying if i was too difficult.

Get over shallow.

Men are pigs, right?

Fail. Men are stallions. There are basically two things men have on their minds: 1) sex and 2) driving too fast, or the human equivalent. We are simple critters.

Then there are us guys, such as myself, who live more inside their own heads. We are nerdy; less likely to be prancing about at high speed and attracting the notice of females to accomplish task 1).

At the risk of starting a sex war, I suggest that women who suggest that "men are pigs" are self-projecting. Bring it on, ladies. I'm well armed for this argument should it be forthcoming.

What do women want? This is not a rhetorical question. They want what you have. In fact they have a tendency to get very enamored at the thought of acquiring your labours, which brings us back to the whole prancing thing.

You have no reason to be shy.

 

[SouthGoingZax]

To the OP and anyone else in the same boat, do NOT be afraid to approach girls because you consider yourself "nerdy." Further, don't label yourself as socially awkward! You probably have sooo many interesting things to talk about, maybe just not in the mainstream. I for one would rather talk about physics, etc. with a guy than listen to some meathead prattle on about football or something equally boring.

I'm a bit older than most folks on here I think (27) but I can tell you that I have ALWAYS had a thing for supposedly "nerdy" guys. In undergrad, my friends would tease me about always "corrupting" these sweet, innocent guys who had never had a girlfriend before. For me, there's something about making a guy with so much brainpower melt. Over a few glasses of wine at a bachelorette party once, some girlfriends and I had a silly discussion about if we had ever "deflowered" a guy before. Embarassingly, I took the cake: of the four guys I've ever slept with, all four were virgins before me and all three were physicists/engineers!

The unfortunate flipside to this is that I have had to deal with having some pretty excruciating crushes on off-limits guys (like professors.)

Anyway, enough about me, my point is TALK TO HER, she might go nuts for guys that are conventionally considered "nerds."

 

[cronxeh]

.. of the four guys I've ever slept with, all four were virgins before me and all three were physicists/engineers!

The unfortunate flipside to this is that I have had to deal with having some pretty excruciating crushes on off-limits guys (like professors.)

It has always fascinated me how women consider themselves to be less sexual than men, yet they sleep around more often. Then they judge us through this lens of self-righteousness and make the guys second guess themselves when they want to approach a girl.

 

[SouthGoingZax]

Oh, be nice, four is not that bad, and besides I was in monogamous relationships with them all.. it wasn't four at ONCE!

 

[cronxeh]

Oh, be nice, four is not that bad, and besides I was in monogamous relationships with them all.. it wasn't four at ONCE!

Oh sweety, 2 is too many, for what its worth.

 

[SouthGoingZax]

*SIGH* I guess I invited that. The whole premarital sex argument is a can of worms that I'm not prepared to open on my study break.

 

[Math Is Hard]

It has always fascinated me how women consider themselves to be less sexual than men...

We do?

 

[cronxeh]

*SIGH* I guess I invited that. The whole premarital sex argument is a can of worms that I'm not prepared to open on my study break.

What has marriage got to do with that? After you had sex once, you've committed biologically to that person whether you like it or not. Something happens, you breakup or whatever and you go on a little spree there and find yourself another mate. Guess what? You are now cheating on your first commitment with the second guy.

If that is not lying to yourself, which I personally find to be the worst kind of lie, then what is? Sure some might argue that I am crazy, its a great idea to hump around and spread the seed, to which I have 2 words for you.. India and China. Or I guess 1 word.. Asia

Hey can you imagine you name your daughter Asia?

We do?

I don't know what women consider themselves, I am not a woman. This opens an opportunity to call me a hypocrite. Go on, let it all out


Although come to think of it, perhaps the more you lie to yourself, the less self respect you have subconsciously, and your own self value starts to go down. Maybe that's why some women date abusive men who treat them like crap and keep falling into that type of relationship

 

[SouthGoingZax]

My my cronxeh, you're awfully warlike considering we just "met" minutes ago. And I suppose YOU have never considered intimacy with more than one person in your life, since it's such a repulsive concept?

 

[anubis01]

speak for yourself cronxeh, personally the world could do with more women like SouthGoingZax. Seriously where are these kinda girls at my university.

 

[cronxeh]

My my cronxeh, you're awfully warlike considering we just "met" minutes ago. And I suppose YOU have never considered intimacy with more than one person in your life, since it's such a repulsive concept?

When I was a boy between 16 and 19 I've done my share of humping. In retrospect, it was a time wasted on useless pursuits and shallow ideations. I would argue that sex is great, greater when with the same person, but then again the more you don't have it the more likely you to take a nihilistic approach to it. Its not a matter of rationalization on my part, but rather a realization that you can adapt to pretty much anything that is not essential.

Thats why there is a little man in a boat

speak for yourself cronxeh, personally the world could do with more women like SouthGoingZax. Seriously where are these kinda girls at my university.

I agree, you nerds need to get proactive

 

[SouthGoingZax]

speak for yourself cronxeh, personally the world could do with more women like SouthGoingZax. Seriously where are these kinda girls at my university.

EVERYWHERE, you just have to look for us. Then again, I went to Hopkins so it may have been a skewed population sample.

Excuse the generalization, I don't know you from Adam, but "guys like you" are afraid of saying the wrong thing or being "awkward."

"Girls like me" on the other hand, are worried about coming off as not intelligent enough or coming on too strong and scaring you off.

 

[anubis01]

EVERYWHERE, you just have to look for us. Then again, I went to Hopkins so it may have been a skewed population sample.

Excuse the generalization, I don't know you from Adam, but "guys like you" are afraid of saying the wrong thing or being "awkward."

"Girls like me" on the other hand, are worried about coming off as not intelligent enough or coming on too strong and scaring you off.

Admittedly, I used to be this way, but I've gotten a lot better at this. I even pursued one lady friend that got away...it didn't work out though but it allowed me to move on to other women. In fact if it weren't for exams and this other lady I met going back to France in the summer I could have landed myself a women, but It was just bad timing.

All well, at least I'm ready to apply what I learned for next year.

 

[creepypasta13]

EVERYWHERE, you just have to look for us. Then again, I went to Hopkins so it may have been a skewed population sample.

Excuse the generalization, I don't know you from Adam, but "guys like you" are afraid of saying the wrong thing or being "awkward."

"Girls like me" on the other hand, are worried about coming off as not intelligent enough or coming on too strong and scaring you off.

EVERYWHERE? My guess is that maybe 1 out of 1000 girls, of average or higher attractiveness, take interest in awkward nerds. You said it yourself that you were the only one out of your friends who takes interest in nerds. Anyways, in my experience, I have seen 'nerds', who had social skills, have success with women. But I've never seen socially awkward nerds have anything close to success.

 

[creepypasta13]

It has always fascinated me how women consider themselves to be less sexual than men, yet they sleep around more often. Then they judge us through this lens of self-righteousness and make the guys second guess themselves when they want to approach a girl.

I completely agree. But in the case of SouthGoingZax, that's a good thing, because she's going for nerds. We need more nerds to have success with women, so then they'll gain more confidence, and thus produce even more good things for society than they already do

 

[GeorginaS]

After you had sex once, you've committed biologically to that person whether you like it or not. Something happens, you breakup or whatever and you go on a little spree there and find yourself another mate. Guess what? You are now cheating on your first commitment with the second guy.

If that is not lying to yourself, which I personally find to be the worst kind of lie, then what is?

Care to back up any of this judgmental nonsense with fact?

 

[rootX]

I completely agree. But in the case of SouthGoingZax, that's a good thing, because she's going for nerds. We need more nerds to have success with women, so then they'll gain more confidence, and thus produce even more good things for society than they already do

.. That reminds me of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comfort_women"

 

[lisab]

After you had sex once, you've committed biologically to that person whether you like it or not. Something happens, you breakup or whatever and you go on a little spree there and find yourself another mate. Guess what? You are now cheating on your first commitment with the second guy.

Total BS.

 

[cronxeh]

must've plucked a feminist string

 

[lisab]

must've plucked a feminist string

Or maybe you were simply very wrong .

 

[cronxeh]

i will admit the possibility that i am wrong if you admit the possibility that compulsive sex addiction lowers self esteem

 

[lisab]

i will admit the possibility that i am wrong if you admit the possibility that compulsive sex addiction lowers self esteem

Of course it does, for both men and women. But you're saying that a 27-year-old woman who has had four lovers in her life, all in monogamous relationships, is a compulsive sex addict? That's totally bogus.

 

[SouthGoingZax]

You know, it's funny: I forget which post, but someone mentioned that his interactions with a girl sort of improved his confidence and made him more able to approach another girl later on.

Freshman year of undergrad, there was a guy in my hallway who was cute and brilliant but SO painfully awkward. My roomate and I used to giggle because he'd turn bright red and start fidgeting every time we even said hi to him. One night he was playing Go in the common area and I sat down with him and we started talking. I knew he was doing research with one of the physics profs, and when I asked him about it, he totally came alive and was more articulate than I'd ever seen him. After that, we ended up hanging out, playing chess or Go in one of our rooms a lot, studying together, etc.

I would have loved to have dated him, but I felt like I couldn't have the full responsibility of a relationship at the time, because I was having to study so much. I think he was in the same boat too. So we kept hanging out, ended up kissing and cuddling a few times, but nothing more. We never put a label on it. The funny thing was, as the semester went on, I started noticing that his demeanor changed: he would seek people out more often, was more outspoken in class and in general, and even started going to the gym. I don't know if it was just a product of coming into his own having hit college, but I can't help but think maybe having some female interaction boosted his confidence a bit too.

 

[cronxeh]

bogus based on what? I said 2 is too many, 4 is greater than 2. You see the logic here? She did not have to have sex with any of them or she would've stayed with guy #3 or #4. The fact is, the next guy she has sex with is not going to be her last, hence compulsive sex

 

[SouthGoingZax]

You know, it's funny: I forget which post, but someone mentioned that his interactions with a girl sort of improved his confidence and made him more able to approach another girl later on.

Freshman year of undergrad, there was a guy in my hallway who was cute and brilliant but SO painfully awkward. My roomate and I used to giggle because he'd turn bright red and start fidgeting every time we even said hi to him. One night he was playing Go in the common area and I sat down with him and we started talking. I knew he was doing research with one of the physics profs, and when I asked him about it, he totally came alive and was more articulate than I'd ever seen him. After that, we ended up hanging out, playing chess or Go in one of our rooms a lot, studying together, etc.

I would have loved to have dated him, but I felt like I couldn't have the full responsibility of a relationship at the time, because I was having to study so much. I think he was in the same boat too. So we kept hanging out, ended up kissing and cuddling a few times, but nothing more. We never put a label on it. The funny thing was, as the semester went on, I started noticing that his demeanor changed: he would seek people out more often, was more outspoken in class and in general, and even started going to the gym. I don't know if it was just a product of coming into his own having hit college, but I can't help but think maybe having some female interaction boosted his confidence a bit too.

 

[lisab]

bogus based on what? I said 2 is too many, 4 is greater than 2. You see the logic here? She did not have to have sex with any of them or she would've stayed with guy #3 or #4. The fact is, the next guy she has sex with is not going to be her last, hence compulsive sex

You think 2 is too many over a course of probably 10 years?!? For Mother Teresa, maybe!

Maybe they were all lousy lovers.