Are Intelligent, Socially Awkward Males Unsuccessful w/ Women?

[rootX]

I completely agree. But in the case of SouthGoingZax, that's a good thing, because she's going for nerds. We need more nerds to have success with women, so then they'll gain more confidence, and thus produce even more good things for society than they already do

.. That reminds me of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comfort_women"

 

[lisab]

After you had sex once, you've committed biologically to that person whether you like it or not. Something happens, you breakup or whatever and you go on a little spree there and find yourself another mate. Guess what? You are now cheating on your first commitment with the second guy.

Total BS.

 

[cronxeh]

must've plucked a feminist string

 

[lisab]

must've plucked a feminist string

Or maybe you were simply very wrong .

 

[cronxeh]

i will admit the possibility that i am wrong if you admit the possibility that compulsive sex addiction lowers self esteem

 

[lisab]

i will admit the possibility that i am wrong if you admit the possibility that compulsive sex addiction lowers self esteem

Of course it does, for both men and women. But you're saying that a 27-year-old woman who has had four lovers in her life, all in monogamous relationships, is a compulsive sex addict? That's totally bogus.

 

[SouthGoingZax]

You know, it's funny: I forget which post, but someone mentioned that his interactions with a girl sort of improved his confidence and made him more able to approach another girl later on.

Freshman year of undergrad, there was a guy in my hallway who was cute and brilliant but SO painfully awkward. My roomate and I used to giggle because he'd turn bright red and start fidgeting every time we even said hi to him. One night he was playing Go in the common area and I sat down with him and we started talking. I knew he was doing research with one of the physics profs, and when I asked him about it, he totally came alive and was more articulate than I'd ever seen him. After that, we ended up hanging out, playing chess or Go in one of our rooms a lot, studying together, etc.

I would have loved to have dated him, but I felt like I couldn't have the full responsibility of a relationship at the time, because I was having to study so much. I think he was in the same boat too. So we kept hanging out, ended up kissing and cuddling a few times, but nothing more. We never put a label on it. The funny thing was, as the semester went on, I started noticing that his demeanor changed: he would seek people out more often, was more outspoken in class and in general, and even started going to the gym. I don't know if it was just a product of coming into his own having hit college, but I can't help but think maybe having some female interaction boosted his confidence a bit too.

 

[cronxeh]

bogus based on what? I said 2 is too many, 4 is greater than 2. You see the logic here? She did not have to have sex with any of them or she would've stayed with guy #3 or #4. The fact is, the next guy she has sex with is not going to be her last, hence compulsive sex

 

[SouthGoingZax]

You know, it's funny: I forget which post, but someone mentioned that his interactions with a girl sort of improved his confidence and made him more able to approach another girl later on.

Freshman year of undergrad, there was a guy in my hallway who was cute and brilliant but SO painfully awkward. My roomate and I used to giggle because he'd turn bright red and start fidgeting every time we even said hi to him. One night he was playing Go in the common area and I sat down with him and we started talking. I knew he was doing research with one of the physics profs, and when I asked him about it, he totally came alive and was more articulate than I'd ever seen him. After that, we ended up hanging out, playing chess or Go in one of our rooms a lot, studying together, etc.

I would have loved to have dated him, but I felt like I couldn't have the full responsibility of a relationship at the time, because I was having to study so much. I think he was in the same boat too. So we kept hanging out, ended up kissing and cuddling a few times, but nothing more. We never put a label on it. The funny thing was, as the semester went on, I started noticing that his demeanor changed: he would seek people out more often, was more outspoken in class and in general, and even started going to the gym. I don't know if it was just a product of coming into his own having hit college, but I can't help but think maybe having some female interaction boosted his confidence a bit too.

 

[lisab]

bogus based on what? I said 2 is too many, 4 is greater than 2. You see the logic here? She did not have to have sex with any of them or she would've stayed with guy #3 or #4. The fact is, the next guy she has sex with is not going to be her last, hence compulsive sex

You think 2 is too many over a course of probably 10 years?!? For Mother Teresa, maybe!

Maybe they were all lousy lovers.

 

[SouthGoingZax]

Lousy? No way. Get rid of the pocket protector, and set aside the glasses (so they don't break) and you'd be surprised. Muahahhaaha.

 

[cronxeh]

yeah I am already not surprised

 

[DaveC426913]

croxeh, can you please clarify:

After you had sex once, you've committed biologically to that person whether you like it or not. Something happens, you breakup or whatever and you go on a little spree there and find yourself another mate. Guess what? You are now cheating on your first commitment with the second guy.

1] Is it symmetrical? i.e. does it apply to both men and women?
2] Are you saying that the first act of sex bonds you to that person for life, both biologically and morally? If that's not what you're saying, I'm missing it. If so, can you please back this up?

 

[cronxeh]

croxeh, can you please clarify:

1] Is it symmetrical? i.e. does it apply to both men and women?
2] Are you saying that the first act of sex bonds you to that person for life, both biologically and morally? If that's not what you're saying, I'm missing it. If so, can you please back this up?

1. I think it equally applies to both sexes

2. It doesn't bind you for life, just releases biological incentive to be physiologically bonded to that mate, and creates a psychological desire by positive reinforcement. Vasopressin makes you protective of your mate. Oxytocin promotes bonding by building trust and recognizing the scent of the baby or the mate and favorably responding to it. It is the hormone that makes you 'swoon' and cuddly with someone. During sex both of these hormones are released.

Dopamine spike from being with someone gives you the pleasure but also creates addiction on par with cocaine use. Serotonin spike makes you fantasize about your lover, creates vivid sex depictions in your mind where sex actually takes place. It cures depression and makes you a lovestruck crackhead, literally.

Addiction, dependence, reinforcement, and psychological answer to the life's greatest question of purpose and existence are answered when you are high and in love

 

[Evo]

Addiction, dependence, reinforcement, and psychological answer to the life's greatest question of purpose and existence are answered when you are high and in love

But people fall out of love and no longer have feelings toward that person or even loathe and despise that person.

I don't see a problem with having sex with your current "love", no matter how many relationships. I don't even think love has to be a factor, just two consenting adults. Now that there is very reliable birth control, there is no need to continue with the taboo of pre-marital sex that once had a purpose to prevent unwanted pregnancies.

 

[cronxeh]

But people fall out of love and no longer have feelings toward that person or even loathe and despise that person.

I don't see a problem with having sex with your current "love", no matter how many relationships. I don't even think love has to be a factor, just two consenting adults. Now that there is very reliable birth control, there is no need to continue with the taboo of pre-marital sex that once had a purpose to prevent unwanted pregnancies.

Nothing lasts of course, and you end up drifting apart and splitting. After a while you find someone else and then go through the motions again, so in the end the whole point was about procreation. Ensure attraction, bond, and enough jumba juice to last through the gestation and infancy.

That is why life is pointless, as it insists upon itself.

 

[Math Is Hard]

A person doesn't always bond with a person they have sex with. Sometimes they do, sure. But other times, sex can just be for recreation (a la friends with benefits), and that's the end of it. Still other times, a person might wake up hung over on New Year's morning next to their best friend's creepy brother and actually feel repulsed and start considering gnawing an arm off to escape. But, I digress.

Anyway, I don't see this "biological commitment' from sex idea as a universal truth. Everyone's different.

 

[AUK 1138]

Anyway, I don't see this "biological commitment' from sex idea as a universal truth. Everyone's different.

if you knew what he was saying you'd understand. commitment was a poor word choice, imo. i would have said "sex makes you biologically predisposed to want to have sex with the same person again." which, isn't really anything shocking. and sure, everyone is different, but unless you have some kind of abnormality, your body will secrete hormones when you bone.

 

[cronxeh]

Ever notice how you tend to be attracted to similar looking people, seek out pornographic material of women that look or resemble your ex or someone with similar features? The mind is trying to hang on to it, trying to gather more incentive to rekindle the fantasy and build familiarity with the person and trust.

I think everyone should get a bilaterial sine-wave electroshock treatment after a breakup. Its just the only healthy alternative to suffering.

 

[lisab]

Ever notice how you tend to be attracted to similar looking people, seek out pornographic material of women that look or resemble your ex or someone with similar features? The mind is trying to hang on to it, trying to gather more incentive to rekindle the fantasy and build familiarity with the person and trust.

I think everyone should get a bilaterial sine-wave electroshock treatment after a breakup. Its just the only healthy alternative to suffering.

Wow, cronxeh...you must have gone through a hell of a bad break-up .

 

[DanP]

...seek out pornographic material of women that look or resemble your ex or someone with similar features?

Pornography calls for diversity

 

[DaveC426913]

2. It doesn't bind you for life, just releases biological incentive to be physiologically bonded to that mate, and creates a psychological desire by positive reinforcement. Vasopressin makes you protective of your mate. Oxytocin promotes bonding by building trust and recognizing the scent of the baby or the mate and favorably responding to it. It is the hormone that makes you 'swoon' and cuddly with someone. During sex both of these hormones are released.

Dopamine spike from being with someone gives you the pleasure but also creates addiction on par with cocaine use. Serotonin spike makes you fantasize about your lover, creates vivid sex depictions in your mind where sex actually takes place. It cures depression and makes you a lovestruck crackhead, literally.

Addiction, dependence, reinforcement, and psychological answer to the life's greatest question of purpose and existence are answered when you are high and in love

C'man! You've jumped from a release of endorphins via sex straight to calling them a mate in your very first sentence. All the rest hinges on that.

This is tantamount to saying that because one chocolate bar makes me feel nummy in my tummy, that all other foods are ruined for me.

 

[cronxeh]

i offer you a chocolate bar and celery stick, which one are you going to eat?

 

[BobG]

i offer you a chocolate bar and celery stick, which one are you going to eat?

Depends on the context. Where were we exactly when you made the offer? What time of day? Did you accidentally leave an open jar of paste on the desk when you made this offer? If you did, I'm probably not even listening.

Or, if my intellect and maturity are above eating paste, then my emotions, thoughts, and motivations are probably a lot more complex than just biological urges based on chemical reactions.

You're taking things that are slight influencers in humans and turning them into prime motivators.

 

[Kevin9679]

We will ALWAYS get nervous when talking to a girl who's prettier than we usually talk to. It's fine. I often get chills and jitters when talking to a hot girl, and almost always my lower body is advertising itself. I might stutter and my voice might crack. But to be honest a lot of the times girls think this is cute.

The thing is that most guys have too much shame about sexual feelings. I will openly admit that when talking to a girl for the first time, for the first few minutes, my body would be completely ready for sex.

I'm not expecting sex, but that's part of our biology and we feel it no matter what we try to tell ourselves. What screws us up is actually that we're afraid the girl might find out. We might think that the girl, who we don't know but is apparently on a higher plane of existence *cough* than we are, would call us out as a pervert.

But if we aren't ashamed of the feelings we have, the girl wouldn't be afraid of them either. It doesn't make her a sl*t. We are fully allowed to enjoy sexual energy without being players or sl*ts, we just shouldn't act on our impulses with whomever we see.

 

[DaveC426913]

i offer you a chocolate bar and celery stick, which one are you going to eat?

And from this you extrapolate that I'm going to bond with the chocolate and ultimately make it my mate?

 

[cronxeh]

And from this you extrapolate that I'm going to bond with the chocolate and ultimately make it my mate?

You can't apply a socratic method to the complexities of human emotion. Its just pointless to argue this. Sometimes you are attracted to a female without ever having a physical contact with her, sometimes you are totally turned off after you had the kiss and sometimes you are totally turned on even though you did not find the person attractive before.

Sex is extrapolation on that concept. It amplifies whatever attraction you've felt and binds you on those emotions via hormones not 'release of endorphins'. Hormones rule the whole dynamic of human relationships.

I guess I'll try to sum it up using the classical definition of consummate love (physical attraction + intimacy + commitment). The physical attraction leads to intimacy, which over time leads you to want more of the same (psychological reinforcement) and commitment

 

[DaveC426913]

You can't apply a socratic method to the complexities of human emotion.

[extreme sarcasm]
Oh no you can't argue it.

'course, nothing wrong with making unfounded, unilateral generalizations in the first place - but God forbid someone might take issue with such a generalization - then suddenly it's all complex and can't be pinned down...
[/extreme sarcasm]

Why don't you just admit is was dumb and retract it?

 

[cronxeh]

[extreme sarcasm]
Oh no you can't argue it.

'course, nothing wrong with making unfounded, unilateral generalizations in the first place - but God forbid someone might take issue with such a generalization - then suddenly it's all complex and can't be pinned down...
[/extreme sarcasm]

Why don't you just admit is was dumb and retract it?

Point to what was dumb and refute it then? Where is your socratic method now?

 

[Galteeth]

Total BS.

indeed. I have noticed however, through anecdotal observation, that women who experience orgasm with a partner tend to become very bonded to that partner quite quickly, much more so then women who have sex but do not experience orgasm with a partner, and males who have sex. I suppose I should also state the caveat that my observations here are based on heterosexuals.

 

[DaveC426913]

Point to what was dumb and refute it then?

Apparently you have a short memory?

After you had sex once, you've committed biologically to that person whether you like it or not. Something happens, you breakup or whatever and you go on a little spree there and find yourself another mate. Guess what? You are now cheating on your first commitment with the second guy.

None of this is defensible. I don't need to refute it; the onus is on you to back it up.

P.S. I don't have a Socratic Method. Labels say more about the labeler than the labelee.

 

[Theorem.]

cute thread

 

[AlexES16]

I believe that you think too much, but at the same time, I like to analyze my own and other people's behavior.

First, think about the fundamental level of the contact between males and females. I know to some people it's horrible to say that, but we're in a science forum, so I'm not too afraid of the reactions: humans are nothing more but animals. We share the same goal as dogs,
monkeys, and any living being. We want to reproduce to make the race evolve. If that weren't our goal, then we wouldn't be here today.

Humans just tend to find more subtle ways to this, in order to respect each other and
then try to make the world a good place for everyone. If you don't eat your neighbor's
children, then he will not eat yours and so on.

I might be a bit far from the subject, my point was to say that talking to a girl/boy is something that comes "naturally". The nervousness, imho, comes from two things. The
first is the society we live in which made classes: popular girls/boys, nerds, etc.
The second is, still imho, based on some instinct: if I go talk to the girl, and my profile doesn't fit her needs, then I will be rejected. Rejection means no mating and no mating means no kids and thus the end of my "family". As I said above, it is a need brought by evolution. All the rest is details.

If we just reproduced and then died straight away, this would stop there. But here,
even after you have kids, you keep living for years. Thus comes the need to avoid pain.
Living in a group reduces the probability that you will be in pain. The reason we live
in a couple of 2 humans is something that I can't really explain though.

Ok, I don't know if I said anything useful or interesting about the subject. If not,
feel free to tell me and I'll delete my post ;)

Edit: Ok, I just realized that this thread was in the Relationships forum, when I thought it was in some part of the Biology forum. So I think you might not like my answer at all :P

Dude! at last i find this kind of comment =). Scientist should be players! especially biologist xD