Are Muons and Tauons Higher-Dimensional KK Modes?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the hypothesis that muons and tauons could be interpreted as heavier Kaluza-Klein (KK) modes of electrons within a higher-dimensional theory that includes compactified extra dimensions. Participants explore the plausibility of this idea and the implications it may have on particle physics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that muons and tauons might be heavier KK modes of electrons in a higher-dimensional theory, questioning the plausibility of this idea without a specific model.
  • Another participant provides a mathematical framework for KK modes, suggesting that the masses of these modes depend on the compactification scale of extra dimensions, indicating that the extra dimensions would need to be on the order of femtometers.
  • This same participant argues that such large extra dimensions would be ruled out due to the requirement of additional KK partners for other Standard Model particles, which have not been observed.
  • A further contribution emphasizes that the absence of predicted particles with specific mass relations to muons and electrons contradicts the KK mode hypothesis, noting that the tau does not fit the expected pattern either.
  • Another participant acknowledges the insight regarding the size of the extra dimensions, indicating a shift in their understanding.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of the KK mode hypothesis for muons and tauons. While some provide mathematical reasoning against the idea, others remain open to exploring its plausibility. No consensus is reached regarding the hypothesis.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in the assumptions regarding the existence of KK partners and the implications of mass relations among particles, which remain unresolved.

MManuel Abad
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Muons and tauons as KK modes??

Hello, everybody:

I have (what I think is) a silly question. We all know that μ and τ particles are just as electrons, but with larger mass. Could it be that they are heavier Kaluza-Klein modes of the e in a higher dimensional theory, where the extra dimension is compactified?

I know I'm talking without mentioning a specific model (I don't know any), but I wonder if it is plausible or if there is a physical/mathematical argument against such a thing.

Thanks!
 
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It's an interesting question. The KK modes of a scalar field have masses given, in appropriate units, by roughly

$$ m_n^2 = m_0^2 + \left(\frac{n}{R}\right)^2,$$

where ##m_0## is the mass of the field in the higher dimensional theory, and ##R## is a characteristic length scale of the of the compact dimensions. For example, if there is one circular extra dimension, ##R## is the radius, but in some more complicated example it would be related to an appropriate root of the volume.

In your model, ##m_0 \sim m_e## and

$$ m_\mu^2 = m_e^2 + \frac{1}{R^2},$$

therefore

$$R \sim \frac{1}{106~\mathrm{MeV}} \sim 2 \cdot 10^{-15} ~\mathrm{m}.$$

So the extra dimensions would have to be of femtometer size, which is the same order of the size of the proton. Such a large scale extra dimension would have been seen in experiments and, in fact, the present limits on extra dimensions is that they have to be at least ##10^{-4}## times smaller than this value (##\sim 1 ~\mathrm{TeV}## in terms of energy scales).

There is an easy way to see that such large extra dimensions would be ruled out. Namely the other particles of the SM would have to have KK partners, so, for example, we would need a particle with the same quantum numbers as the photon with a mass almost equal to the muon mass. There is no such particle.
 
fzero said:
There is an easy way to see that such large extra dimensions would be ruled out. Namely the other particles of the SM would have to have KK partners, so, for example, we would need a particle with the same quantum numbers as the photon with a mass almost equal to the muon mass. There is no such particle.
For leptons, there should be particles with 2*muonmass-electronmass, 3*muonmass-2*electronmass and so on. Those particles are missing, and the tau does not even fit in that pattern.

In addition, I think the decays of the muon do not fit to that hypothesis.
 
That'll do! Thanks! It didn't occur to me to look for the size of the extra dimension...

Cheers
 

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