Are orbital planes generally parallel on large scales?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the alignment of orbital planes in celestial systems, specifically examining whether the orbital planes of planets in our solar system and other solar systems are generally parallel to the plane of the Milky Way galaxy. It explores theoretical and observational aspects of planetary formation and orbital dynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that the moon orbits the Earth on a plane similar to the Earth's orbit around the sun, raising the question of whether this pattern extends to larger scales.
  • One participant argues that gravitational and rotational effects cause proto-planetary systems to form disk shapes perpendicular to their rotation axis, but this may not apply to the scale of the Milky Way due to long revolution times.
  • Another participant states that the ecliptic is misaligned with the Milky Way plane, asserting it is about 40 degrees out of alignment.
  • A later reply corrects this to approximately 60 degrees, indicating uncertainty in the exact measurement.
  • Participants discuss the orderly formation of the solar system and the variability in other star systems, noting that some exoplanets exhibit highly inclined or retrograde orbits.
  • It is suggested that the angular momentum of the interstellar cloud from which a star forms influences the formation of planetary systems, with perturbations potentially leading to varied orbital inclinations.
  • Some participants mention that the gravitational effects from nearby stars and the galaxy itself contribute minimally to the correlation between the orientations of galactic and planetary systems.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the alignment of orbital planes, with some asserting a lack of correlation between the ecliptic and the Milky Way plane, while others provide varying estimates of the angle of misalignment. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the generality of orbital plane alignment across different systems.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions made about angular momentum and the effects of gravitational interactions, as well as the precise measurements of the ecliptic's alignment with the Milky Way plane, which remain debated.

mrspeedybob
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The moon orbits the Earth on nearly the same plane as the Earth orbits the sun. Does this coincidence of orbital planes scale up? Do the planets in our solar system orbit on a plane that is parallel to the plane of the milky way? What about planets in other solar systems in the milky way?
 
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I believe due to gravitational and rotational effects, spinning fluids (or dust clouds, a.k.a. proto-planetary systems) tend to stretch into disk shapes perpendicular to the axis of rotation of the cloud. On something the scale of the milky way however, this won't happen because the time it takes for a considerable revolution is too large even on a solar scale.

And no our planets don't, if they did the ecliptic would line up with the milky way, which it doesn't.
 
The ecliptic is about 40 degrees out of alignment with the plane of the milky way.
 
mrspeedybob said:
The moon orbits the Earth on nearly the same plane as the Earth orbits the sun. Does this coincidence of orbital planes scale up? Do the planets in our solar system orbit on a plane that is parallel to the plane of the milky way? What about planets in other solar systems in the milky way?
In our solar system, the planets and many of the asteroids orbit along more or less the same plane. The minor planets such as Pluto and the major moons orbit along a similar plane. The solar system apparently formed in a nice, orderly fashion. Some other star systems apparently did not. Scientists have observed exoplanets with highly inclined and even retrograde orbits.

Planetary systems form because the interstellar cloud from which the star formed already had some angular momentum. This angular momentum causes the cloud to form an accretion disk; the planets form in this accretion disk. A solar system such as ours results if the formation is nice and orderly and unperturbed. Unchecked planetary migration and perturbations from nearby stars can result in systems with widely varying inclinations, planets kicked out of orbit, etc.

As far as where the angular momentum comes from: Some of it came from the star that exploded and formed the gas cloud. Stars passing nearby this cloud can transfer angular momentum to the cloud due to gravity gradient torque. The gravity gradient torque from the galaxy is rather small, making for a very small correlation between the orientations of the galactic plane and that of the planetary system.


Chronos said:
The ecliptic is about 40 degrees out of alignment with the plane of the milky way.
It's about 60 degrees, not 40.
 

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