Are Supermassive Black Holes Roaming Galaxy Centers After Merger Events?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the interactions of supermassive black holes (SMBHs) during and after merger events, particularly focusing on their potential displacement from galaxy centers and the dynamics involved in such interactions. Participants explore theoretical implications, observational evidence, and the nature of black hole mergers.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the distance required for a less massive black hole to be fully absorbed by a more massive black hole.
  • Others propose that a smaller black hole may simply orbit a larger one, similar to planetary motion, but acknowledge that orbits can decay due to gravitational radiation.
  • A participant raises the idea of a less massive black hole existing within the event horizon of a more massive black hole and questions the nature of their interaction.
  • Some contributions reference simulations from Numerical General Relativity, suggesting that during mergers, event horizons may merge without one black hole slipping inside the other.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of black hole mergers, including the potential for gravitational waves and the displacement of SMBHs from galaxy centers as a result of such events.
  • A participant mentions a study regarding the SMBH in M87 being displaced from its galaxy center, attributing this to previous mergers and the effects of gravitational waves.
  • Another participant highlights the potential long-term wandering of SMBHs in galactic nuclei following mergers, particularly in the context of the Milky Way and Andromeda galaxies merging in the future.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the interactions and behaviors of black holes during mergers, with no clear consensus on the specifics of these dynamics or the implications of the findings discussed.

Contextual Notes

Some discussions involve assumptions about the nature of black holes and their interactions, including the definitions of event horizons and the conditions under which mergers occur. The complexities of gravitational radiation and orbital dynamics are also noted but remain unresolved.

MathematicalPhysicist
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Is it possible? How far should the less massive black hole be from the massive black hole in order to be sucked wholely in the massive black hole?

any articles addressing black holes interaction between themselves?
 
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The original question can be treated as a question of a large mass interacting with a small mass. It is possible that the small mass will simply orbit the large mass, just like a planet around the sun.
 
mathman said:
The original question can be treated as a question of a large mass interacting with a small mass. It is possible that the small mass will simply orbit the large mass, just like a planet around the sun.

However, all orbits will eventually decay due to the emission of gravitational radiation.
 
Isn't there a place in the event horizon where everything inside it will collapse gravitationally?
I am wondering what if another less massive black hole were inside the event horizon of another massive black hole, what the interaction would then be like.
 
Thanks, Steve.
So I see it's still an open problem...
 
The simulations that come out of research in Numerical GR would seem to indicate a merger of the event horizons, with gravitational radiation being emitted as gravitational waves. In no simulation or model does one "slip inside" the other or break apart.
 
Patrus89 said:
The simulations that come out of research in Numerical GR would seem to indicate a merger of the event horizons, with gravitational radiation being emitted as gravitational waves. In no simulation or model does one "slip inside" the other or break apart.

When the horizons begin to merge, I believe we consider it to be one deformed black hole as opposed to two discrete objects.
 
Nabeshin said:
When the horizons begin to merge, I believe we consider it to be one deformed black hole as opposed to two discrete objects.

Well yes. If we define a black hole as the interior of an event horizon, then this is necessarily true (if you define "begin to merge" as when a common horizon is formed).
 
  • #10
black hole can destroy them self when they interact whit each other, there are other possibility too like merge,,one gets kicked out of orbit
 
  • #11
MathematicalPhysicist said:
any articles addressing black holes interaction between themselves?


May 25, 2010

Supermassive Black Holes May Frequently Roam Galaxy Centers

MELBOURNE, FLA.—A team of astronomy researchers at Florida Institute of Technology and Rochester Institute of Technology in the United States and University of Sussex in the United Kingdom, find that the supermassive black hole (SMBH) at the center of the most massive local galaxy (M87) is not where it was expected. Their research, conducted using the Hubble Space Telescope (HST), concludes that the SMBH in M87 is displaced from the galaxy center.

The most likely cause for this SMBH to be off center is a previous merger between two older, less massive, SMBHs. “We also find, however, that the iconic M87 jet may have pushed the SMBH away from the galaxy center,” said Daniel Batcheldor, Florida Tech assistant professor in the Department of Physics and Space Sciences, who led the investigation.

The study of M87 is part of a wider HST project directed by Andrew Robinson, professor of physics at RIT. “What may well be the most interesting thing about this work is the possibility that what we found is a signpost of a black hole merger, which is of interest to people looking for gravitational waves and for people modeling these systems as a demonstration that black holes really do merge,” says Robinson. “The theoretical prediction is that when two black holes merge, the newly combined black hole receives a ‘kick’ due to the emission of gravitational waves, which can displace it from the center of the galaxy.”

David Merritt, professor of physics at RIT, adds: “Once kicked, a supermassive black hole can take millions or billions of years to return to rest, especially at the center of a large, diffuse galaxy like M87. So searching for displacements is an effective way to constrain the merger history of galaxies.”

Jets, such as the one in M87, are commonly found in a class of objects called Active Galactic Nuclei. It is commonly believed that supermassive black holes can become active as a result of the merger between two galaxies, the infall of material into the center of the galaxy, and the subsequent merger between their black holes. Therefore, it is very possible that this finding could also be linked to how active galaxies—including quasars, the most luminous objects in the universe—are born and how their jets are formed.
[Please read on . . .]
http://quasar.astro.fit.edu/~perlman/blackhole/BlackHolesRoamPressReleaseFINAL.pdf

:smile: Wow! Be sure to read the entire document. I found a big surprise in there!

Especially thought-provoking, added Eric Perlman, associate professor of physics and space sciences at Florida Tech, is that our own galaxy is expected to merge with the Andromeda galaxy in about three billion years.[:eek: ] ”The result of that merger will likely be an active elliptical galaxy, similar to M87. Both our galaxy and Andromeda have SMBHs in their centers, so our result suggests that after the merger, the SMBH may wander in the galaxy’s nucleus for billions of years.”
:bugeye:
 

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